ChucK vs Max/MSP vs SuperCollider vs Pure Data vs Processing

[frahnque]

And on that subject. Machinate, I know you are a magician with Max/MSP/Jitter, and I also know that you do video tutorials for Live, why not cook up some basics about Max / MSP / Jitter? I think it's really needed.

hey man!

I don't know why not, actually? Sure could use a few out there. Will give it a good think.

How about:
1. Simple synth making in MSP (Think Sine/Tri/Square + filter).
2. Guide to effects making.
3. Generative scoring (simple 16 by 4 matrix)
4. The above but with Jitter components
5. A general guide to good patch making in Max/MSP/Jitter
6. A simple rewire mixer
7. How to make pancakes with Max

(Ok the last one is a bit off, but Im sure that with some extra hardware it could be done).

[frahnque]

I just checked out the new tutorials... DAMN, they're even better than the old ones!

And it's so cool to have the new objects, too. Current fave:

(zl lookup)

On the tutorials:
There's still some stuff I'd love to see... Pictures! I know that for a lot of people, reading will suffice. I like to read, mostly on real paper though, but I am also in heavy need of pictures. I don't mean cartoons of course, but rather some thing to sort of anchor the text in. This shouldn't be too hard I take it, and I wonder why they did not put any pictures of the actual patches (or parts of them) in, I don't have the printed manual though (I have the download version).

And on that subject. Machinate, I know you are a magician with Max/MSP/Jitter, and I also know that you do video tutorials for Live, why not cook up some basics about Max / MSP / Jitter? I think it's really needed.

IMO the help files ARE outstanding graphical examples, what more would you want? there's the patch, here are some dials and sliders to exercise the patch, here are boxes to read the output and btw here are some related topics.

then there's the 'clue' box that's very similar to the help box in Live, very cool. (is it called 'clue' I don't have max with me.)

I actually temporarily forgot about those help files, and when I use Max I use those all the times. However, I'd still want those pictures in the tutorials. I dunno if they are in the printed manuals though, but I 'd like a set of printed manuals and I d be sad if there were no pictures in those

[Machinate]

I actually temporarily forgot about those help files, and when I use Max I use those all the times. However, I'd still want those pictures in the tutorials.

the tutorials come with some lovely patches, quite graphical in their appearance. I'm not sure what you would want apart from that..? You can even load them directly from the tutorial text.

[Tone Deft]

pictures of what though?


absolutely use the help files. what to know the #1 trick max gurus use (I'm no guru, I'm not even a grasshopper)? ALWAYS steal from help files, ALWAYS. ctrl-clik on the help file to make it editable, drag select the whole thing, copy it into your project, connect what you need, delete what you don't need.


if you want to start a max thread I'd be game to post examples of your questions, basics on how to make the above. the max community seems pretty tight lipped on how to make stuff, I can understand wanting to keep your hard work held tight, I don't believe in that.

[frahnque]

pictures of what though?


absolutely use the help files. what to know the #1 trick max gurus use (I'm no guru, I'm not even a grasshopper)? ALWAYS steal from help files, ALWAYS. ctrl-clik on the help file to make it editable, drag select the whole thing, copy it into your project, connect what you need, delete what you don't need.

if you want to start a max thread I'd be game to post examples of your questions, basics on how to make the above. the max community seems pretty tight lipped on how to make stuff, I can understand wanting to keep your hard work held tight, I don't believe in that.

Okay, I might have put this the wrong way. I have a bit too much to do so I might be writing too fast.

Here it goes. On occasion I like to read stuff without using a computer. On occasion I read manuals like this, and if I were to read the Max/MSP/Jitter manual I would love to have pictures in it. My mind is wired this way (pictures makes it easier to learn for me, just as some people would like some on talking to them about stuff in order to learn). Unfortunately there are no PDF's with Max/MSP/Jitter like there was before, only HTML which in turn makes printing a pain

When I do stuff in Max/MSP/Jitter I copy stuff from the help files and alter them - just like you said - it works magic.

On the secrets of Max, and keeping them secret. I prefer the openness attitude. Patch sharing is for the good of all!

[Geezus]

The new MAX tutorials are actual PATCHES, complete with buttons and objects and everything. That's way more helpful than pictures.

[Tone Deft]

The new MAX tutorials are actual PATCHES, complete with buttons and objects and everything. That's way more helpful than pictures.

they always have been, at least in the last year I've been using max.

what frahnque is getting at is reading the manual without a computer. I guess that could help, I too am more visual (but am not into blinky visual stuff at all, I'm a total audio guy.)

IMO max is totally a use it or lose it kind of thing. for me using max makes me better, I don't know if I'd learn from reading, but that's just me. I took a class on it last summer, watching someone do it did nothing for the students, it was the hands on 'homework' that made all the difference. watching someone make patches it all seems so matter of fact, it's when you have to decide if you need a message or float box as an input, that's when you learn, usually by getting it wrong.


well, maybe we can all help each other, maybe come up with a group patch, which could be cool if each person took 1 aspect of the patch. I wonder if that could work. in time... for now, the basics.

[Noel]

The new MAX tutorials are actual PATCHES, complete with buttons and objects and everything. That's way more helpful than pictures.

This is also the way the PD tutorials are done, by the way.

I mainly use Pure Data for controller remapping and general processing. It's very good for this, I've not played much with the audio side much because I'd rather pay somebody with a research and development budget to design synthesisers and effects for me.

One of the great features of PD is the integration of graphics and data structures into the language. People have used this to create graphical "scores" that drive the playback process. for example see Hans Christoph Steiner's work "Solitude" http://at.or.at/hans/solitude/

I think the main technical difference between PD and MAX is that PD does audio and control message processing in the same environment, whereas MAX requires the MSP extension for this (apparently MSP is based on PD code)

MAX/MSP does seem very well supported, but I see PD as basically MAX mark 2. Plus it's open source, and I love open source! (and HP sauce)