so, Live 2.0 announced for december

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
dirtystudios
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Post by dirtystudios » Sun Nov 03, 2002 10:25 pm

quit yer bitchin' and buy a midi sequencer if you want vsti support. i think live should stay as a pure audio tool. adding midi beyond contoller support would just complicate eveything. you say vsti support is just like vst support that accepts midi. that may be true (though i'm no programmer, so i've no idea) but then you have vsti support without a sequencer, so it's only good for people who will actually be playing a keyboad and i would argue that most vsti tracks are controlled via a sequencer. so then there would be a cry for little midi clips that you could play the vstis with, because "vstis without a sequencing, what's the point of that?". then you'd need to edit the little midi clips somehow, so you'd need some editing options. but how many options? all of them? just a few? so you've added all this stuff and compicated everything so much that live loses all the nifty simplicity that makes it such a great, fun, easy and stable program to use. maybe the reason that cubase, logic or any other bloated everything-in-one-infinitely-complex program isn't ever considered for performance with is due to the inabilty of programmers to ever get an app with forty bazillion options spanning a light year of code to ever be stable enough for stage. i dunno, just a thought.

k

p.s.
os wrote:
Kodama wrote:First off, I don't understand the big desire since Live is not really a Midi app.
I think anyone who uses a MIDI fader box to control Live might disagree with you there.
actually, i do use a midi fader box, and i don't disagree even a wee bit.

neuronaut
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MIDI-I knew it would come to this ;)

Post by neuronaut » Mon Nov 04, 2002 7:43 am

I can't resit the MIDI vision again.. sorry Ableton...

It is the matrix of layers/channels that empowers me. Dragging and clicking loops totally rocks. Just imagine Live with MIDI capabilities where I could drop a MIDI arrangement including MIDI Control messages and instanly change parameters on my gear and play MIDI notes seamlessly (just like audio). Drag and Drop hardware control. My goodness! I'm really close to writing my own software just to play back MIDI files created in Cubase using the matrix approach in Live. :wink:

geargasm
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Post by geargasm » Mon Nov 04, 2002 6:05 pm

os wrote:
atom_b wrote:LIVE is getting closer to being a real studio application.
it seems that way, but I wonder if it's a good direction for Ableton to be going. I mean, the thing that makes Live special is it's use, well, live.
why write another studio tool when the market is already crowded?
having said that, if becoming a studio tool involves improving the audio processing quality, then that's good for live work too.
I don't know, I think there's a lack of easy to use studio tools, especially for a home-brew sort of musician who's not into computers. I had to walk a friend through setting up cubase sx, and it wasn't pretty.

With the simplicity of live's interface, I think a lot of musicians might give live a try. If I could tell any of my other musician friends that a peice of software could easily fix their guitar playing, I'm sure they'd buy it.

/me notes: gates... w00t![/quote]

Stiffy
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All things to all people?

Post by Stiffy » Tue Nov 05, 2002 12:30 am

I think Live can be equally effective as performance tool and studio application. To me, that is the beauty of it all: a single tool that allows you to improvise, jam, perform, edit, mix and render... I am primarily a studio mole, so I welcome the ease of being able to sit down and bang out a track without having to consult a hefty manual. (yes, I'm talkin' to you, eMagic...) My ultimate take on Live 2.0? GIMME, GIMME, GIMME!!!

Hexadecimal
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Re: All things to all people?

Post by Hexadecimal » Tue Nov 05, 2002 1:15 am

For those of you needing wanting to be able to play VSTi's live and not being able to in Ableton, Steinberg is releasing a VSTi host application that does nothing but host virutal instruments. It also apparently can handle VST & DirectX effects to apply to your VSTi's, and has a virutal mixer. Just 50 euros.

http://www.harmony-central.com/Newp/2002/V-Stack.html

Cool enough I might just have to end my "No Steinberg" policy if someone doesn't make a competitor soon.

Hexadecimal
www.freesidemusic.com

tjwett
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Post by tjwett » Tue Nov 05, 2002 3:10 am

It says nothing about ReWire though. If it doesn't have it then it's pretty much useless in Live. What if some made a VST plugin that was actually a holder for VSTinstruments? That might work to.

bcslaam
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Post by bcslaam » Tue Nov 05, 2002 6:07 am

Geargasm mentioned musicians. I think he'll find them getting very frustrated without being able to play any instruments in Live.
Surely it wouldn't complicate the program too much to enable VSTi.
Even this would be enough to keep a lot of musicians happy.

And with the MIDI. You wouldn't have to have a huge editing facility, if any. I would be quite happy making the file elsewhere. Maybe just a transpose feature. The ability to run a long control track (made elsewhere) alongside a long audio track in arrange. would also be nice.

ONE of the problems I'm having with playing Bidule or another VSTi host together with Live is it skips when switching between apps. And thats it, I'm constantly switching between apps, jumpety jump. Not to mention the stability problems and duplicated services.

As far as bewildering novices, get real, it's a feature they wouldn't even notice until they wanted it, and if they are muso's then that day will come.

As far as stability. Well I see it partly the users responsability to use well tested and stable instruments. But yes stability is very important. Maybe a preference enableing the feature for those who dare would solve that.

Ableton please hear our plea. Even if you just told us of your VSTi plans for near future releases.

os
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Post by os » Tue Nov 05, 2002 8:24 am

tjwett wrote:It says nothing about ReWire though.
Indeed.
Making a simple host app is pretty simple (as is reflected in the low cost of VStack) and indeed for AudioUnits Apple provide the source for one as an example.
The trick as you say would be to ReWire it, but I've just checked the Propellerheads website and they won't license it to individual developers, only "proper companies". Which seems a bit rubbish of them. :(

Guest

V- stack for mac ?

Post by Guest » Tue Nov 05, 2002 9:24 am

Hi

The article on Harmony Central says V-Stack is for both PC & Mac. Steinberg.net says PC. Is there anyone who knows if V-Stack will be released for Mac ?

/j

Mbazzy
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Post by Mbazzy » Tue Nov 05, 2002 10:06 am

You might also consider Chainer - http://www.xlutop.com - 60$/euro
What is Chainer?

Chainer is a multi-effect and multi-instrument rack for musicians and sound designers. It's a VST host that runs as a standalone application, VST effect and VST instrument.

Chainer allows you to stream the ASIO or VST input signal through up to 10 chains of VST effects so you can use your PC as a realtime multi-effect processor.

In addition Chainer enables you to play several VST instruments at the same time. You can layer several instruments to create complex sounds or you may play instruments on different MIDI channels: Chainer turns your PC into a multi-timbral sound generator.

To achieve very low latencies, the standalone version supports ASIO 2.0 compatible soundcards. A fast PC, a good ASIO driver and Chainer enable you to use your VST effects and instruments almost like real hardware devices.

It is possible to load up to 100 VST plugins per instance of Chainer, but since you can load Chainer in itself there is no actual limit.

The parameters of Chainer and also parameters of the loaded VST plugins can be controlled through MIDI control change messages or VST automation.

A bonus feature of Chainer is the ability to create multi-samples from your VST instruments in WAV and SF2 format for instant use in samplers.
http://www.mbazzy.tk -
Mbazzy's "The dysfunctional playground, a scrapbook a bout the shape of useless things" now OUT on Retinascan - http://www.retinascan.de

mindlobster
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Post by mindlobster » Tue Nov 05, 2002 10:20 am

[quote="bcslaam"]Geargasm mentioned musicians. I think he'll find them getting very frustrated without being able to play any instruments in Live.
Surely it wouldn't complicate the program too much to enable VSTi.
Even this would be enough to keep a lot of musicians happy.

And with the MIDI. You wouldn't have to have a huge editing facility, if any. I would be quite happy making the file elsewhere. Maybe just a transpose feature. The ability to run a long control track (made elsewhere) alongside a long audio track in arrange. would also be nice."

I AM a 'musician', but I thought the idea was that Live IS THE INSTRUMENT. And MIDI? Great for interfacing Live with hardware controllers, would be nice if scenes could send program changes, BUT I don't want to see a MIDI editor in Live, I really don't! If you want all of this stuff why are you using Live anyway?

SlowX
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Re: V- stack for mac ?

Post by SlowX » Tue Nov 05, 2002 4:59 pm

Anonymous wrote: The article on Harmony Central says V-Stack is for both PC & Mac. Steinberg.net says PC. Is there anyone who knows if V-Stack will be released for Mac ?
Indeed... anyone have a Mac solution?

php
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Post by php » Tue Nov 05, 2002 8:43 pm

Does anyone know what the new "Redux" effect in Live 2.0 does? Some type of delay maybe?

mmm

redux

Post by mmm » Tue Nov 05, 2002 10:00 pm

my guess is that the redx fx is probably some sot of signal degrader or distortion...cool.
i STILL want a reverse plaback and a one-shot playback feature.

Guest

Post by Guest » Fri Nov 08, 2002 9:29 am

Hi Mbazzy
I tried "Chainer". Thanx for the tip. It would be just what VSTi users would need....but does it work with VSTi in Live? I couldn't get it to work. Its visible and loads in but doesnt sound out with any synths. It worked in Logic great though. One step closer.

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