help with vocals in ableton please

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
Moody
Posts: 2115
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:47 pm

Post by Moody » Fri May 16, 2008 7:55 pm

silverlulu wrote:yeah i hadn't thought of getting a stand really but now you mention it i think that's a good idea. as for a pop filter i might just rip up some tights and get the coat hanger to make a temp one. having said that, i may as well try and pick one up while i'm there!

man i am excited about tomorrow! i am really looking forward to getting my vocals. thanks again.
What ever works. :lol:
Ableton’s engineers are hard
at work developing code that will allow our software to predict the future, but we don’t
anticipate having this available until at least the next major release.

roby
Posts: 931
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:16 pm
Location: CA, USA
Contact:

Post by roby » Fri May 16, 2008 9:20 pm

cool man, i hope you start recording vocals more to your liking. but yeah like it was mentioned before, don't use gate effects on vocals. they are really hard to set to make them sound natural. like it was mentioned before, the best thing is to draw volume envelopes to manage the silent and noisy parts, pops, etc. it's a time consuming process, but it is so well worth it.

that's what i've been doing with great success. once i record a good vocal take, and have adjusted envelopes to sound good, then i add a very mild compressor at around a 3:1 or 4:1 ratio just to tame and even things out a bit more. i follow that with an EQ, and EQ8 is really good at that. i try my hardest to record the best vocals possible so that i don't have to mess around with EQing it to death. but i do like cutting the low end frequencies, usually with a highpass filter. i should start using highpass shelf as suggested above. i like cutting frequencies at about 12khz too and lowering frequencies between 500hz and 2khz, depending on the mix, but very very lightly. i like cutting above 12khz to get a more "retro" (IMO, hehehe) feel to the vocals. in general, i'm learning that cutting or lowering frequencies is better than boosting...

as far as effects, i'm sort of tired of adding reverb to vocals. i come from the 90s shoegaze wall of reverb school, and so now i have a bit of a backlash against reverb or vocals. not that i dont use it, i just avoided, or should i say, it is not my standard effect to add to vocals. but what i do, as suggested above, again, is to record two takes of the same vocal line, and then pan them slightly left and right respectively. it's a neat effect. a good variation of that is to set both takes to the same panning value, let's say center, set the volume for the first take so it sits well on the mix, then slowly raise the volume of the second take until you start to hear the vocals thicken up. ideally i set for example take 1 to volume of 0.0db and take 2 to like 6 or 9 dbs lower than the first.

you could also add a chorus effect with a slow speed and low depth.

a slapback delay is my favorite effect. that's just a very short delay with no feedback...

silverlulu
Posts: 357
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:07 am

Post by silverlulu » Sat May 17, 2008 12:55 pm

thanks roby, the compression and EQing is definitely good advice! wow, this is cool, everyone is being really helpful, I LOVE IT!

ok so an update... i went to music shop and randomly met this guy who offered to sell a perception 100 condenser mic, an alesis io2 usb mixer thing, mic stand, pop filter and carry case, so i got the lot for £100. i think it was a pretty good deal, the usb mixer is going for about £90 and the mic about £60 so its cool. the schure mic i had was my mates anyway so now i have my own which is cool.

i do have a question tho! AGAIN!!!

one issue i am getting tho, and i have had this with all mics that i have tried, is that i am picking up a horrible background noise like a quiet hoover in my recordings. is this cos my sound card sucks? (basic one i got with laptop) or is there something i should be doing to get rid of it? thank yooouuuuu[/b]

Moody
Posts: 2115
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:47 pm

Post by Moody » Sun May 18, 2008 12:19 am

roby wrote:cool man, i hope you start recording vocals more to your liking. but yeah like it was mentioned before, don't use gate effects on vocals. they are really hard to set to make them sound natural. like it was mentioned before, the best thing is to draw volume envelopes to manage the silent and noisy parts, pops, etc. it's a time consuming process, but it is so well worth it.

that's what i've been doing with great success. once i record a good vocal take, and have adjusted envelopes to sound good, then i add a very mild compressor at around a 3:1 or 4:1 ratio just to tame and even things out a bit more. i follow that with an EQ, and EQ8 is really good at that. i try my hardest to record the best vocals possible so that i don't have to mess around with EQing it to death. but i do like cutting the low end frequencies, usually with a highpass filter. i should start using highpass shelf as suggested above. i like cutting frequencies at about 12khz too and lowering frequencies between 500hz and 2khz, depending on the mix, but very very lightly. i like cutting above 12khz to get a more "retro" (IMO, hehehe) feel to the vocals. in general, i'm learning that cutting or lowering frequencies is better than boosting...

as far as effects, i'm sort of tired of adding reverb to vocals. i come from the 90s shoegaze wall of reverb school, and so now i have a bit of a backlash against reverb or vocals. not that i dont use it, i just avoided, or should i say, it is not my standard effect to add to vocals. but what i do, as suggested above, again, is to record two takes of the same vocal line, and then pan them slightly left and right respectively. it's a neat effect. a good variation of that is to set both takes to the same panning value, let's say center, set the volume for the first take so it sits well on the mix, then slowly raise the volume of the second take until you start to hear the vocals thicken up. ideally i set for example take 1 to volume of 0.0db and take 2 to like 6 or 9 dbs lower than the first.

you could also add a chorus effect with a slow speed and low depth.

a slapback delay is my favorite effect. that's just a very short delay with no feedback...
Have you tried the insert silence option?
Ableton’s engineers are hard
at work developing code that will allow our software to predict the future, but we don’t
anticipate having this available until at least the next major release.

Moody
Posts: 2115
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:47 pm

Post by Moody » Sun May 18, 2008 12:21 am

silverlulu wrote:thanks roby, the compression and EQing is definitely good advice! wow, this is cool, everyone is being really helpful, I LOVE IT!

ok so an update... i went to music shop and randomly met this guy who offered to sell a perception 100 condenser mic, an alesis io2 usb mixer thing, mic stand, pop filter and carry case, so i got the lot for £100. i think it was a pretty good deal, the usb mixer is going for about £90 and the mic about £60 so its cool. the schure mic i had was my mates anyway so now i have my own which is cool.

i do have a question tho! AGAIN!!!

one issue i am getting tho, and i have had this with all mics that i have tried, is that i am picking up a horrible background noise like a quiet hoover in my recordings. is this cos my sound card sucks? (basic one i got with laptop) or is there something i should be doing to get rid of it? thank yooouuuuu[/b]
Yes, you definetly need a good interface for vocals.
Ableton’s engineers are hard
at work developing code that will allow our software to predict the future, but we don’t
anticipate having this available until at least the next major release.

roby
Posts: 931
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:16 pm
Location: CA, USA
Contact:

Post by roby » Mon May 19, 2008 12:28 am

Moody wrote: Have you tried the insert silence option?
:?: :?:

silverlulu
Posts: 357
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:07 am

Post by silverlulu » Mon May 19, 2008 11:49 am

yeah i don't really know the deal with that... i have been using cool edit and i did the whole recording 5 seconds of silence thing. that seemed to do absolutely NOTHING

maybe i am doing it wrong tho?!?!?!?!

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