Don't get me wrong. Live is a great program that got me excited to work on music again. I thank Cubase for completely turning me off to producing and pursuing 3 years of mediocre DJing instead of writing music. Live brought me back.
I think any new features in the next Live are going to add a whole new level of geekdom that I don't really need. Most of the techniques I learned through Live and this forum already existed for years but I was just too stupid or lazy to learn them and a lot of other techniques and features lead to endless noodling that doesn't really go anywhere.
I reflect on how much more music I was putting out when I didn't even know half of this stuff and didn't spend loads of time researching God knows what that everybody is so excited about.
Maybe the honeymoon is over or maybe I reached that ceiling that made me realize no new upgrade, plug-in, or hardware is going to somehow make me constantly churn out amazing tracks by the truckload.
Feel free to respond by linking the 3 dozen other topics that pretty much said the same thing but in different words.
Anybody else NOT excitedly anticipating Live 8?
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RhythmSickness
- Posts: 345
- Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:02 am
- Location: uk
I am still not with the excited anticipation for live 7. I am quite happily still using 6 for what I use it for. To be honest upgrading every 12 months is pretty ridiculous if you ask me. The version I already own still works.
Yeah I might not have the uber cool new additions, but then it is stable and already paid for. Personally I would appreciate more the longer development cycle of 2-3 years with a LOT more beta testing being done by the actual company and not by me. Maybe then they would be able to dedicate some staff & time to implementing feature requests of the user-base, instead of just implementing whatever new marketing strategy they have for the product line. ie very very pricey sample libraries.
Not to rag on the abes too much, but I already own several of their products, and until they really start finishing them off some more I don't think I'm going to buy another.
Yeah I might not have the uber cool new additions, but then it is stable and already paid for. Personally I would appreciate more the longer development cycle of 2-3 years with a LOT more beta testing being done by the actual company and not by me. Maybe then they would be able to dedicate some staff & time to implementing feature requests of the user-base, instead of just implementing whatever new marketing strategy they have for the product line. ie very very pricey sample libraries.
Not to rag on the abes too much, but I already own several of their products, and until they really start finishing them off some more I don't think I'm going to buy another.
G5, G4x2 / G3 Live 3/4/5/6 Reason 2/2.5/3 virb soundclick
well, last year I would have imagined that I would be content with Live 7, I was that sure the problems I felt needed fixing would be addressed, namely automation and recording things separately - ideally session automation - proper group tracks instead of this massively complicated inline rack thingy that gives you no control benefits as you can't access sends, clips, track delay etc with them - the "ocean of grey" that Live has become
but none of it was, and instead Live became massively complicated in a really short space of time and really hard to focus on visually
so yeah I'm really looking forward to Live 8, because in many ways I feel like they broke one if it;s most important properties in Live 7 - it's simplicity
the thing is - I think it's actually REALLY close - but it's like they all need to fire up Live 3 at Ableton HQ and have a play with it for a bit - remember what it was about Live 3's simplicity that made t really special
they need to look more at the research findings of people like Fisher Price when they design their toys - we need, BIG ROUND Obvious controls, not endless fiddly, visually indistinguishable mazes
I can guarantee loads of people came to Live to get away from that maze of menus and features that other DAWs offered
that concept of simplicity has been completely forgotten
the priority should have always been on session view - making it more usable and flexible, rather than coming up with more reasons to get away from it
so in other words, the solution to the problem I see here is not necessarily fixing the symptoms, but instead rethinking the strategy so that instead of needing to turn the arrange view into a copy of other DAWs, but instead make Session view SO powerful and flexible that you can just use that more often and not need to get bogged down in that old fashioned, uninspiring linear way of working
I really thought Live 7 would be close, but it went in quite the opposite direction to what I expected
but the good news is, we've had a number of acknowledgements from Ableton that they are aware of this and a lot of these things are high on their radar, so I'm back hoping again that Live 8 will be the Workflow edition I've been waiting for
[/rant]
but none of it was, and instead Live became massively complicated in a really short space of time and really hard to focus on visually
so yeah I'm really looking forward to Live 8, because in many ways I feel like they broke one if it;s most important properties in Live 7 - it's simplicity
the thing is - I think it's actually REALLY close - but it's like they all need to fire up Live 3 at Ableton HQ and have a play with it for a bit - remember what it was about Live 3's simplicity that made t really special
they need to look more at the research findings of people like Fisher Price when they design their toys - we need, BIG ROUND Obvious controls, not endless fiddly, visually indistinguishable mazes
I can guarantee loads of people came to Live to get away from that maze of menus and features that other DAWs offered
that concept of simplicity has been completely forgotten
the priority should have always been on session view - making it more usable and flexible, rather than coming up with more reasons to get away from it
so in other words, the solution to the problem I see here is not necessarily fixing the symptoms, but instead rethinking the strategy so that instead of needing to turn the arrange view into a copy of other DAWs, but instead make Session view SO powerful and flexible that you can just use that more often and not need to get bogged down in that old fashioned, uninspiring linear way of working
I really thought Live 7 would be close, but it went in quite the opposite direction to what I expected
but the good news is, we've had a number of acknowledgements from Ableton that they are aware of this and a lot of these things are high on their radar, so I'm back hoping again that Live 8 will be the Workflow edition I've been waiting for
[/rant]
sidechain effects, drum racks, the slicer, the detailed fader readout, Hi-Q mode on plug ins, multiple automations lanes, Spectrum... all obscure needless additions to L7 that take hours of studying to use but aren't really useful. <sarcasm>
Beats - aren't you on Live 6 anyway since you can't get L7 running on your Mac? runs great on my PC, has been for months, I leave Live open all for days on end without rebooting and use it pretty much daily.
don't want it? don't buy it. I can promise you that the features you're saying you don't want are nothing you can predict, that's how I've felt about every new release, lots of surprises.
Live definitely lacks in areas, they will NEVER satisfy everyone. some will want more, some will say there's too much.
I should temper my post by adding that I've only used Live since ver 3, so I don't see what's cool and groovy about other DAWs. I know Beats and forge know other DAWs and have that perspective.
Beats - aren't you on Live 6 anyway since you can't get L7 running on your Mac? runs great on my PC, has been for months, I leave Live open all for days on end without rebooting and use it pretty much daily.
don't want it? don't buy it. I can promise you that the features you're saying you don't want are nothing you can predict, that's how I've felt about every new release, lots of surprises.
Live definitely lacks in areas, they will NEVER satisfy everyone. some will want more, some will say there's too much.
I should temper my post by adding that I've only used Live since ver 3, so I don't see what's cool and groovy about other DAWs. I know Beats and forge know other DAWs and have that perspective.
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz
forge,
But do you think with all they have added and probably will continue to add that it will be near to impossible to return to elegant simplicity? There's only so much screen real estate.
I've never really dove into racks and when I've installed some that some of the gurus out there have made I look at it and go what the Hell is that? How did they make that? Do I even want to know?
In a way the whole Cycling 74 collaboration scares me. While it may bring more creative options I think it's also going to add a cluster fuck of a mess and Max isn't exactly known for it's simplicity. I don't care how many picture icons they add. It's like Live is going to become Reaktor:The Daw.
I think it would be nice if they finally added the not so glamorous things people have been begging for like automation in session view, the 128 parameter limit issue, belezabub curves or whatever, etc. That would make a lot of people happy or maybe excited. Those may not be important to some people but you do really have to think about it when every other DAW out there has some features that Live doesn't and I don't want to get into a "but Live isn't every other DAW!" argument. I know it isn't but other companies don't seem to have problems including these features. So lets add them and move forward.
I also wish they would partner up with a high end effects developer because I think Live is extremely lacking in that department.
But do you think with all they have added and probably will continue to add that it will be near to impossible to return to elegant simplicity? There's only so much screen real estate.
I've never really dove into racks and when I've installed some that some of the gurus out there have made I look at it and go what the Hell is that? How did they make that? Do I even want to know?
In a way the whole Cycling 74 collaboration scares me. While it may bring more creative options I think it's also going to add a cluster fuck of a mess and Max isn't exactly known for it's simplicity. I don't care how many picture icons they add. It's like Live is going to become Reaktor:The Daw.
I think it would be nice if they finally added the not so glamorous things people have been begging for like automation in session view, the 128 parameter limit issue, belezabub curves or whatever, etc. That would make a lot of people happy or maybe excited. Those may not be important to some people but you do really have to think about it when every other DAW out there has some features that Live doesn't and I don't want to get into a "but Live isn't every other DAW!" argument. I know it isn't but other companies don't seem to have problems including these features. So lets add them and move forward.
I also wish they would partner up with a high end effects developer because I think Live is extremely lacking in that department.
all those things are great, but due to the things I mentioned they are actually way more complicated to useTone Deft wrote:sidechain effects, drum racks, the slicer, the detailed fader readout, Hi-Q mode on plug ins, multiple automations lanes, Spectrum... all obscure needless additions to L7 that take hours of studying to use but aren't really useful. <sarcasm>
you havent yet encountered the sea of faders or ocean of grey?
m,aybe you dont use many tracks, but I'm finding working in any decent sized project really hard to see what's going on
multi-lane automation doesn't help that at all - in fact I find it way too hard to even use - for me it's much easier to click on the knob I want to edit then have it appear
if you could right click> show all automation for device it would be way more usable, but just getting everything that you want to look at showing is not at all straight forward - you either have to show everything on the entire track, or go through and tediously show them one by one
there are still moments I sit down and feel really inspired about the new features, but most of the time it gets quickly overshadowed by just how much harder the workflow and visual side of things has become
the fact that I am still having to go through and delete all the useless automation, and automation is still such a PITA to work with is really shitty IMO - that should have been fixed well before we got multiple lanes of the shittiness
Beats - you don't know what the C74 collab will be, IMO it's a MUCH safer bet that they'll keep it DJ friendly (IOW idiot friendly <DJ joke, sorry>). I love Live for the fact that it doesn't have many buried menus.
forge - yes, I keep my track count simple, 8 maximum. expanded drum racks can get RIDICULOUS.
strange thing is that we don't know how each other work in the studio, I'm sure it's quite different.
by all means, hold the Abes' toes to the fire, let them know what you want, they seem to listen from time to time.
forge - yes, I keep my track count simple, 8 maximum. expanded drum racks can get RIDICULOUS.
strange thing is that we don't know how each other work in the studio, I'm sure it's quite different.
by all means, hold the Abes' toes to the fire, let them know what you want, they seem to listen from time to time.
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz
This isn't a "screw you Ableton!" post. I could probably go on forums for just about any other DAW and make the exact same statement. I think technology is reaching the point of bells and whistles distraction and very little being done in the way of time saving production which is a whole new level of inspiration unto itself. That's what makes Live so great but now it just seems like it's going out in whatever random direction.Tone Deft wrote:sidechain effects, drum racks, the slicer, the detailed fader readout, Hi-Q mode on plug ins, multiple automations lanes, Spectrum... all obscure needless additions to L7 that take hours of studying to use but aren't really useful. <sarcasm>
Beats - aren't you on Live 6 anyway since you can't get L7 running on your Mac? runs great on my PC, has been for months, I leave Live open all for days on end without rebooting and use it pretty much daily.
don't want it? don't buy it. I can promise you that the features you're saying you don't want are nothing you can predict, that's how I've felt about every new release, lots of surprises.
Live definitely lacks in areas, they will NEVER satisfy everyone. some will want more, some will say there's too much.
I should temper my post by adding that I've only used Live since ver 3, so I don't see what's cool and groovy about other DAWs. I know Beats and forge know other DAWs and have that perspective.
I have no idea what the next level of work flow accelerator would be and it would be hard for Ableton to top themselves in that arena, which hopefully won't come from a competitor.
Maybe I'm just growing underwhelmed with everything like the spoiled kid that always gets everything he wants for Christmas but grows bored with each toy quickly.
actually yes I do - I think if they remember that Session view is what made Live and focus all their attention on making it more usable then then can get it backbeats me wrote:forge,
But do you think with all they have added and probably will continue to add that it will be near to impossible to return to elegant simplicity? There's only so much screen real estate.
.
I would have rather had session automation and maybe a way of expanding the clip view to show multiple lanes
or, for example, not have this absolute vs relative session vs arrange thing and instead have alias clips where you are working in the same clip in both views so that what you expand for multipl lanes is actually the clip envelopes
clip envelopes is one of the most genius things they have come up with and they've just left it alone - they should have totally expanded on that and developed it more
I would rather have as little as possible to do with arrange view
instead of the inline rack mixer, they should have taken a step back and given us proper group tracks - we can do it ourselves then, much more simply and still with the main sends, clips and track delay available - the inline rack mixer is virtually useless to me - it takes away control options and replaces it with a sea of faders with no colours to distinguish between them
what if instead you could have this feature 'extract chains' like we do now, but instead have 'extract all chains to group track' so you can convert a rack into a group track - meaning you could hide it in session view, and operate the whole lot with one fader and sends, but still expand the view and have clips, sends and track delay etc
I would like to go to Ableton HQ and paint in gigantic letters on the wall "SIMPLICITY!!! remember Live 3"
"just when you thought you won't upgrade..." by ableton...
presenting...
new features in live 8 :
-session view automation
-dual screen support and detachable mixer.
-keyboard macros..
-screen view presets.
-8 banks of macros for racks,
-MTC that syncs.
-color coded group tracks...
-modultion devices.
-analog style sequencer.
-improved file management system.
-video jockey..
...and much much more..
....200$... buy live 7 now and get an update to the next beta for free...
I'm on to them... they release 1 feature you need... +lots you don't.
that list up there is good for at least 6 more versions...
that list is more or less mine3dot... wrote:
"just when you thought you won't upgrade..." by ableton...
presenting...
new features in live 8 :
-session view automation
-dual screen support and detachable mixer.
-keyboard macros..
-screen view presets.
-8 banks of macros for racks,
-MTC that syncs.
-color coded group tracks...
-modultion devices.
-analog style sequencer.
-improved file management system.
-video jockey..
...and much much more..
....200$... buy live 7 now and get an update to the next beta for free...
I'm on to them... they release 1 feature you need... +lots you don't.
that list up there is good for at least 6 more versions...