Not to sound stupid, but really...studio monitors?

[rikhyray]

Apart from what you want/need to hear good monitors let you hear what shouldnt be there, task that with ordinary media speaker, even high end consumer is not possible.
As example- I was really shocked recently playing a movie through my EMU 1616m and Genelces. It is not just that it sounded so increadibly better but the DETAILS, I could hear some little noises, ambient sounds with amazing definition. That is exactly what monitors are for, also sub which is not much that "ÿou feel those basses" but rather to detect better the problems.
It is like using magnifying glass assembling some electronic gadget, you don't need it to use the gadget but you do for making it or fixing.
BTW my cine system is supposedly high end but after that Genelec experience I will probably Ebay the whole thing, for testing how something sounds on consumer stuff there are better alternatives and for my own listening, movie viewing pleasures hearing such definition is addictive. Good 2.1 is more fun then consumer level 5.1.

[dn83]

Thanks for all the insights.

As for the frequency response range, what I meant was this. My set of Logitech Z-3 speakers with a subwoofer are listed as having a frequency response of 35 Hz - 20kHz. Most sets of monitors I look at fall short of that on the low end, stopping at like, 50 Hz on the low end. But, from what you guys are saying, it's not so much about frequency response range?

While we're on the subject, how much does it matter if your speakers/monitors are plugged into balanced or unbalanced outputs?

[spkey]

Thanks for all the insights.

As for the frequency response range, what I meant was this. My set of Logitech Z-3 speakers with a subwoofer are listed as having a frequency response of 35 Hz - 20kHz. Most sets of monitors I look at fall short of that on the low end, stopping at like, 50 Hz on the low end. But, from what you guys are saying, it's not so much about frequency response range?

Your logitech might have a 35Hz - 20KHz response but that's only half the information. What is importanr is to actually see the graph to understand HOW it responds to that range! Is the response nearly flat or is it quite curvy on some bands? A good monitor speaker should have a good response throughout the whole spectrum at the same loudness (20Hz - 20KHz though most of us cannot hear below 40Hz and above 18KHz anyway). So Response IS VERY important. What is also important is the sensitivity factor. Your Logitechs might be 2x100 Watts and still be quiter than my 2x60 Watts monitors. Harmonic Distortion is also important.

While we're on the subject, how much does it matter if your speakers/monitors are plugged into balanced or unbalanced outputs?

If you have a good pair of monitors its silly not to use balanced output. Balanced output offers one more signal in 180 degrees out of phase in order to cancel unwanted noise. Its ok to use a guitar unbalanced with a small cable but its better to use balanced input for mics.

sp.

[laird]

As for the frequency response range, what I meant was this. My set of Logitech Z-3 speakers with a subwoofer are listed as having a frequency response of 35 Hz - 20kHz. Most sets of monitors I look at fall short of that on the low end, stopping at like, 50 Hz on the low end.

I'll reiterate: companies make up these numbers. there is no standard for measurement or reporting. So don't trust these numbers AT ALL.


you know what, my earbud headphones might be able to make a 20hz sine wave if you drive them hard enough and ignore things like, oh, distortion. Painful high end. Smoke. The car battery I hooked up for extra juice. Flames.

Also, they can report theoretical numbers. that range they advertise, does it say anywhere that a measurement was actually taken? Or how?
Do they even label their graphs, or just draw pretty lines?

Some people say 50% of your studio budget should go into your sound playback system.. speakers, amp, treatment.

This is for Pro Studios, and for a beginner there are more fun things to spend money on. Still, keep it in mind when you find your mixes lacking somewhere, somehow.

[Machinesworking]

Apart from what you want/need to hear good monitors let you hear what shouldnt be there, task that with ordinary media speaker, even high end consumer is not possible.
As example- I was really shocked recently playing a movie through my EMU 1616m and Genelces. It is not just that it sounded so increadibly better but the DETAILS, I could hear some little noises, ambient sounds with amazing definition. That is exactly what monitors are for, also sub which is not much that "ÿou feel those basses" but rather to detect better the problems.
It is like using magnifying glass assembling some electronic gadget, you don't need it to use the gadget but you do for making it or fixing.
BTW my cine system is supposedly high end but after that Genelec experience I will probably Ebay the whole thing, for testing how something sounds on consumer stuff there are better alternatives and for my own listening, movie viewing pleasures hearing such definition is addictive. Good 2.1 is more fun then consumer level 5.1.

+1

I have nothing to comment back to OP with. If you think your ideas on how to mix a great record are far more logical and superior to 40+ years of mixing in studios by engineers, who all use 'studio' monitors, then I'm not capable of telling you otherwise.
Think of it this way, do you seriously think that Pink Floyds the Wall could have been mixed just as easily on consumer grade monitors???

I'm not saying run out and buy the top of the line monitors, mine cost around $550 with the sub woofer included, (Rubicon 5a's with a KRK sub), but it's obvious to me that they help.

[Maninkari]

and what about using headphones? I've got the akg 601, I think they are quite decent.

[laird]

You should know the potential pitfalls associated with mixing on headphones.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec03/a ... phones.htm

briefly:

1. mix at safe volumes, please!
2. panning works totally differently with headphones versus normal sound (i.e. speakers). headphones panning = volume differences. our brains are better at detecting timing & phase differences for 1 sound across two ears, though.
3. clarity can be deceiving on headphones. Low mids may sound nice on your sennheisers, but totally muddy on your hi-fi stereo system.

[siddhu]

To the OP, don't mean to be arrogant but you really need to do your homework!

If you can't HEAR the difference between cheapo junk and even lower end studio monitors, I don't know why you are in this line of work.

The quality and translation of my mixes improved exponentialy from the day I got my first set of real studio monitors (Blue Sky Pro Desk 2.1 System).

It was as if I had been mixing through pillows until I got my "studio grade" monitors.

[dn83]

To the OP, don't mean to be arrogant but you really need to do your homework!

If you can't HEAR the difference between cheapo junk and even lower end studio monitors, I don't know why you are in this line of work.

I haven't yet ever had the chance to use studio monitors. I've never even seen any in real life, just pictures, haha...

It was as if I had been mixing through pillows until I got my "studio grade" monitors.

Good way to put it.

[dn83]

So, say I were willing to spend up to $250 on a pair. Recommendations?

I was looking at the KRK RP-5 set...

Avoid M-Audio, yeah?

[suburbanbather]

Thanks for all the insights.

As for the frequency response range, what I meant was this. My set of Logitech Z-3 speakers with a subwoofer are listed as having a frequency response of 35 Hz - 20kHz. Most sets of monitors I look at fall short of that on the low end, stopping at like, 50 Hz on the low end. But, from what you guys are saying, it's not so much about frequency response range?

Your logitech might have a 35Hz - 20KHz response but that's only half the information. What is importanr is to actually see the graph to understand HOW it responds to that range! Is the response nearly flat or is it quite curvy on some bands? A good monitor speaker should have a good response throughout the whole spectrum at the same loudness (20Hz - 20KHz though most of us cannot hear below 40Hz and above 18KHz anyway). So Response IS VERY important. What is also important is the sensitivity factor. Your Logitechs might be 2x100 Watts and still be quiter than my 2x60 Watts monitors. Harmonic Distortion is also important.

While we're on the subject, how much does it matter if your speakers/monitors are plugged into balanced or unbalanced outputs?

If you have a good pair of monitors its silly not to use balanced output. Balanced output offers one more signal in 180 degrees out of phase in order to cancel unwanted noise. Its ok to use a guitar unbalanced with a small cable but its better to use balanced input for mics.

sp.

Thank you very much! Spkey and pretty much every single other post clearly defines why anyone thats into production, needs studio monitors vs. over priced multi-media speakers. The point has been hit home multiple times at various angles. Spend some money on monitors already. This thread is being beaten to death.

So, say I were willing to spend up to $250 on a pair. Recommendations?

I was looking at the KRK RP-5 set...

Avoid M-Audio, yeah?

Do you live in an isolated wasteland or something? Go to the nearest Guitar Center, B&H Photo, Sam Ash, whatever big music gear store you've got close by and bring a couple of your favorite cd's with you and listen the monitors they have for sale. KRK and M-Audio are very common so where ever you go, the store should have them available to listen to. I have not heard KRK's before, but a buddy of mine rocks the M-Audios, and for the money, they are very impressive. However, if KRK's are in your price range, definitely check those out as well as M-Audios.

[Maninkari]

You should know the potential pitfalls associated with mixing on headphones.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec03/a ... phones.htm

briefly:

1. mix at safe volumes, please!
2. panning works totally differently with headphones versus normal sound (i.e. speakers). headphones panning = volume differences. our brains are better at detecting timing & phase differences for 1 sound across two ears, though.
3. clarity can be deceiving on headphones. Low mids may sound nice on your sennheisers, but totally muddy on your hi-fi stereo system.

thank you very much!

[nonnus]

So, say I were willing to spend up to $250 on a pair. Recommendations?

I was looking at the KRK RP-5 set...

Avoid M-Audio, yeah?

i have read amazing things about the yamahas hs50m on more technical oriented forums than this one...

i still have my debut monitors, classic m-audio bx8,
and although i cannot really complain on how they sound on my room, probably bcs i never compared them to other monitors and i still have my doubts on how well they translate to other systems...
as a result i still loose hours trying to make my mind on their replacements

for me and my dancefloor oriented music is quite hard to give up on 8" woofers so i already considered a pair of hs80m to compare

a bit out of your range but another monitors getting good testemonials (not reviews !) are the adam a7

a lot out of my range are my new hartbreakers: focal twins...

[bicarbone]

So, say I were willing to spend up to $250 on a pair. Recommendations?

I was looking at the KRK RP-5 set...

Avoid M-Audio, yeah?

If you buy m-audio, you will get a chance in no time to get back to cheap speakers, i.e. while your brand new monitors will be slowly travelling to an obscure repair shop located god knows where in China.

Sorry, but some friends have had some nightmarish experiences with that brand recently...

And, yeah, take some cd's, go to a store and have a close listen to whatever is in your price range.

[spkey]

I'll reiterate: companies make up these numbers. there is no standard for measurement or reporting. So don't trust these numbers AT ALL.

Of course there is. There are a number of ways to measure a speakers' frequency response. One of them (simplified) is to reproduce white noise in an anechoic chamber at normal temperature. A specially calibrated mic (with a linear response - unlike human hearing) is then placed on axis from the speaker at a distance of 1 meter away from it. The amplitude of the signal is then plotted for all frequencies independently (since white noise consists of all frequencies at equal intensity). That's what the frequency response graph displays. I do not remember at what intensity measurements are done but the information should be there on the manual when you buy a good speaker.

Obviously I have no idea how your speakers were measured or the Logitech.