[url]hy use impulse when we have drum racks?

[R.J.Dubya]

I would really like a better way to convert old impulse kits to drum racks. -ie each impulse sound on its own square - is this not possible? I'm I missing something?

i've wondered about this also...is there a way?

Well it's not too hard really. Although it's not exactly a one button push kinda thing.
Load the same impulse into eight different pads on your drum rack. Now set the note sent by the pad to be the corresponding note the slot in impulse receives.

I'm not sure how much resources having those extra samples in there takes, but you can just delete the extras that aren't being used.

Here's a question that I have: If you load one impulse kit eight times into a drum rack (meaning that all eight drum samples in the impulse were loaded eight times), does it use a lot more ram than if each sample was only loaded once? I'm not sure how that works in ableton. Same question for clips I guess. If you load the same loop many times (but treat it differently), obviously cpu will increase, but does ram usage increase when it's the same sample being references many times?

maybe I'll do a test. Nah, I'm going to bed.

[koneko]

I would really like a better way to convert old impulse kits to drum racks. -ie each impulse sound on its own square - is this not possible? I'm I missing something?

i've wondered about this also...is there a way?

since its only 8 samples, just drag and drop them into a new rack . . ?

[jamester]

I would really like a better way to convert old impulse kits to drum racks. -ie each impulse sound on its own square - is this not possible? I'm I missing something?

i've wondered about this also...is there a way?

since its only 8 samples, just drag and drop them into a new rack . . ?

You can't drag and drop a sample out of Impulse into a new instrument, and besides that wouldn't include the processing from the Impulse itself. I suppose you could always just dig up the original samples if they're still around and start fresh, but I don't think this is what they mean...

I think the only way to do this - and it's way too cumbersome if you have a ton of kits IMO - is to simply record the hits as audio onto a track in Arrange, and then split them out and drag them to Drum Rack pads.

One cool thing about doing this is that it basically "bounces" whatever effects and Impulse settings you have into the sample, so you get to start fresh in Simpler (or Sampler) with the new sample.

[Michael Hatsis]

I would really like a better way to convert old impulse kits to drum racks. -ie each impulse sound on its own square - is this not possible? I'm I missing something?

i've wondered about this also...is there a way?

since its only 8 samples, just drag and drop them into a new rack . . ?

yeah, just use the hotswap button on the impulse cells an drag em into the drum rack from the browser.

[forge]

it's interesting to see that after a year of drumracks there still ppl that prefer Impulse.. I do as well..

Impulse works so much faster for just (simple) programming..

I feel that drumracks are somehow designed for the massive content romplers as DrumMachines and SessionDrums..
Yep, 'romplers', because editing drumsounds with those 2 packs can be way too complicated i.m.o.

I've said it before but what I feel lacking with drumracks is that they don't offer the workflow of a dedicated drummachine, which Impulse simply has..
Too much clicking, navigating, mapping, hide/showing, etc etc..

They should've made Impulse 2.0 XXL

+100

I've also said it before, but for me it would have made far more sense to just make your own with real, proper group tracks

then just improve impulse with things like the decay Andreas is talking about, so things like choke can still just be used with impulse (choke is something I really don't use that often, so I don't need 16 groups of it - maybe I'm really missing out and I'm sure there;s plenty of people who use it a lot), but aside from that and saving or loading elaborate ROMpler type kits I really don't know what drum racks provides that I need

it would be about a million times easier to just have each simpler on a normal MIDI track and group them all together - that way we get clips and track delay for each one

the thing that racks has done to us is make it so that everything is no longer right in front of you - you have to go looking for things

this is where Battery is way better than the drum racks - click a pad, see it's parameters - hence why Poster's idea of Impulse 2 XXL is a good one - on impulse you click the pad and the parameters appear

drum racks you click a pad and a massive big chain of holy fuck knows what appears - if it's nested racks then you are really in trouble

I prefer immediate interfaces, where it's all right in front of you - and Ironically that is what attracted me to Live

I was just wondering if maybe one possible solution would be to somehow allow the track/clip view to be expanded upwards and have a kind of vertical view so that you could see chains side by side

people often wish for seeing clips side by side, so maybe that is somethign that could work there too

[Michael Hatsis]

Drum racks are cool, as long as you have no more than 16 slots filled..Lots of times i catch myself still trying to expand the height of the drum racks chain section - never works...

Aren't drumracks impulse 2XL? When Inst racks were implemented i think its safe to say that most of us chose a rack of simplers over a rack of impulses. I think if anything ableton implements features too fast yet far in between. I think if we could expand the device view then there would be lots less negatives aboot drum racks...

@ forge- i hear you about clips in the rack mixer, as well as most of your other feature requests having to do with racks and device views. but why would you need individual delay compensation? If your routing stuff out o live doesnt the external inst handle this? or even use a simple delay...

[oddstep]

+1, I'm a drum rackophile. In L6 I was making simpler drumkits with the occasional impulse used when I wanted to use its stretch parameter - now I can do all that but with a streamlined workflow. and more sends, and assignable choke groups. and a nearly idiot proof interface for my pad kontrol.
I'm still trying to expand the drum rack view as well.
Rather than an impulse upgrade I'd rather see simpler get time stretching capacity (like impulse has). It'd be amazing.

[andydes]

this is where Battery is way better than the drum racks - click a pad, see it's parameters - hence why Poster's idea of Impulse 2 XXL is a good one - on impulse you click the pad and the parameters appear

drum racks you click a pad and a massive big chain of holy fuck knows what appears - if it's nested racks then you are really in trouble

Editing parameters by clicking on the pad or chain in the rack is horrible. However, I assume you’re aware that if you select the track for that chain in the mixer, it displays only the instrument and effects. The drum rack itself is hidden. I find it quite easy to navigate round complex racks this way. If you want to see any grouped effects, just click on the mixer channel for the next level up.

[Poster]

Aren't drumracks impulse 2XL?

theoretically yes, practically no..

as Forge worded it:
..on impulse you click the pad and the parameters appear..
..drum racks you click a pad and a massive big chain of holy fuck knows what appears - if it's nested racks then you are really in trouble..

I'm also missing the immediacy you have when clicking an Impulse pad..
plus all parameters that appear on Impulse are all dedicated to drums..
with drumracks the 'simplest' device to load is Simpler..
but to me even Simpler has too many features for my general programming needs.. (plus it fills half my screen for just one sample..)

that's why I think drumracks lean more towards the massive sample packs or ppl who really like to sculp their sounds with Sim/Sampler + chained devices..
but for just simple playback and doing a tweak or two I think that a stripped down sample device that sort of has the feature set of Impulse would be great..
as jamester said:
..a one-pad "mini-pulse" device, which would be the default Drum Rack pad instrument..

ultimately I see Impulse 2 XXL as;
Impulse with 128 cells, scrollable just as with drumracks,
and when you click a cell, a limited set of parameters appear near that cell (preferably within the device itself, not part of a device chain..)


the thing with drumracks is that they're not dedicated enough to a certain purpose..
currently they're a 100000 trick pony..
though dedication leads to limited feature set, it will be very good and efficient at doing just that one dedicated function..
with being a 100000 trick pony the choices and features are endless, and so increases complexity which really affects workflow..

[forge]

this is where Battery is way better than the drum racks - click a pad, see it's parameters - hence why Poster's idea of Impulse 2 XXL is a good one - on impulse you click the pad and the parameters appear

drum racks you click a pad and a massive big chain of holy fuck knows what appears - if it's nested racks then you are really in trouble

Editing parameters by clicking on the pad or chain in the rack is horrible. However, I assume you’re aware that if you select the track for that chain in the mixer, it displays only the instrument and effects. The drum rack itself is hidden. I find it quite easy to navigate round complex racks this way. If you want to see any grouped effects, just click on the mixer channel for the next level up.

I'm not a fan of the inline rack mixer at all - in large racks you end up with a big sea of grey faders and you don't even have direct access to clips and the sends on them are pointing to a different set of returns to the rest of the mixer - you spend your time jumping all over the place switching between devices and clips and returns and back again

each to their own I guess, I just wanted a way to reduce screen clutter (group/folder tracks) not add to it

[Poster]

However, I assume you’re aware that if you select the track for that chain in the mixer, it displays only the instrument and effects. The drum rack itself is hidden. I find it quite easy to navigate round complex racks this way. If you want to see any grouped effects, just click on the mixer channel for the next level up.

but don't you think that that's a very expensive shortcut, screen estate wise?

i.m.o. such ease of navigation should be available in the device view..

[forge]

that's why I think drumracks lean more towards the massive sample packs or ppl who really like to sculp their sounds with Sim/Sampler + chained devices..

but this is the crazy thing - if you are going to do it that way then you are better off just using it on it's own normal track, grouping them together so you can hide them and save space

I didnt use to think it was too bad using a SImpler for 1 drum sound if it was on it's own on a track

but for just simple playback and doing a tweak or two I think that a stripped down sample device that sort of has the feature set of Impulse would be great..
as jamester said:
..a one-pad "mini-pulse" device, which would be the default Drum Rack pad instrument..

problem with that is the parameters take up the full length of the current Impulse - so how would you fit it all in? You might as well just use a full Impulse

the thing with drumracks is that they're not dedicated enough to a certain purpose..
currently they're a 100000 trick pony..
though dedication leads to limited feature set, it will be very good and efficient at doing just that one dedicated function..
with being a 100000 trick pony the choices and features are endless, and so increases complexity which really affects workflow..

totally agree - I know Ableton love killing more than one bird with the one stone and keeping things flexible, but in this case it's just interfered with the simplicity of actually using the thing

Impulse actually had a lot going for it, and actually only a couple of things wrong with it

After getting Reaktor 5 last week and becoming re-acquainted with NI It's really reminded me where the Ableton interfaces are going wrong - it's exactly what you said, trying to do too much at once - 100000 trick pony

[piZMo]

I mostly work on drum & bass, for creating my drum breaks I use racks for splitting/editing/reprogramming sampled breaks, and an impulse 'drumstack' rack for the heavy hitting one shots.

[lunabass]

i'm only new to drum racks (i've only just upgraded) but all of the things i was excited about with drum racks i've found are almost outweighed by the clutter...

i'd have loved for the impulse to be reworked as it is so immediate. it didn't need much, personally, the following additions would be great:

1. the ability to just add more drum cells when more samples are needed (just like battery)
2. a send knob for each cell that directly accesses the main return channels in the mixer

[forge]

i'm only new to drum racks (i've only just upgraded) but all of the things i was excited about with drum racks i've found are almost outweighed by the clutter...

i'd have loved for the impulse to be reworked as it is so immediate. it didn't need much, personally, the following additions would be great:

1. the ability to just add more drum cells when more samples are needed (just like battery)
2. a send knob for each cell that directly accesses the main return channels in the mixer

yes- and I think maybe this addresses one of the main issues visually which is Ableton still insisting on keeping the device view horizontal

If they were thinking in terms of expanding upwards then it might have actually been a lot more obvious to just allow Impulse to start moving up - like give it a Pad view like the drum racks have that contains the samples like Impulse does and just fix the other problems like decay etc

then you just solve the problem of the device view encroaching on the rest of the screen by allowing saveable screen sets that respond to keyboard shortcuts

the pad view seems to have created an enormous amount of confusion because the pads dont actually contain the samples (like Impulse, Battery -every other drum VSTi in existence probably) instead they are just shortcuts - and they are shortcuts to anything mapped to that note no matter what sub rack they are in - major headfuck potential