The session view automation maximum value crap :(
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- Posts: 1205
- Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:29 pm
- Location: Norway
The session view automation maximum value crap :(
I wish to have track 3 play *louder* in the scene where the clip is orange
I go to automate the volume, but what? It's already set to maximum, despite the fader being set to -26dB? That makes very little sense.
I now have to set the volume for this scene as the maximum, and adjust the rest accordingly from that value. (or create a new track at a lower volume) Lame.
I know this is a known issue, and probably so that things don't get fucked up in arrangement view (?) It is still however one of the major annoyances in Live, which has caused me frustration many times.
While I'm at it, I'll add some subliminal messaging:
LFOPLZLFOPLZLFOPLZLFOPLZ
? This is how the clip automation always works. It is a % of the value set by the GUI control. The arrange view will automate the actual GUI.
For me the way it works is great. It provides a way to automate relative to an arangement. Much like an LFO or envelope on a synth.
If you want the orange clip to be louder, make the clip volume for the other clips less than 100% (what you really want is the other clips to be quieter)
It could be nice if you could automate one parameter absulte for each device on a clip: on/off (then you could add a utility with gain and automate that one on and off) but that would probably confuse most users.
For me the way it works is great. It provides a way to automate relative to an arangement. Much like an LFO or envelope on a synth.
If you want the orange clip to be louder, make the clip volume for the other clips less than 100% (what you really want is the other clips to be quieter)
It could be nice if you could automate one parameter absulte for each device on a clip: on/off (then you could add a utility with gain and automate that one on and off) but that would probably confuse most users.
we need relative/absolute buttons on the clipsSoma wrote:? This is how the clip automation always works. It is a % of the value set by the GUI control. The arrange view will automate the actual GUI.
For me the way it works is great. It provides a way to automate relative to an arangement. Much like an LFO or envelope on a synth.
If you want the orange clip to be louder, make the clip volume for the other clips less than 100% (what you really want is the other clips to be quieter)
It could be nice if you could automate one parameter absulte for each device on a clip: on/off (then you could add a utility with gain and automate that one on and off) but that would probably confuse most users.
yepforge wrote:we need relative/absolute buttons on the clipsSoma wrote:? This is how the clip automation always works. It is a % of the value set by the GUI control. The arrange view will automate the actual GUI.
For me the way it works is great. It provides a way to automate relative to an arangement. Much like an LFO or envelope on a synth.
If you want the orange clip to be louder, make the clip volume for the other clips less than 100% (what you really want is the other clips to be quieter)
It could be nice if you could automate one parameter absulte for each device on a clip: on/off (then you could add a utility with gain and automate that one on and off) but that would probably confuse most users.
well.. there could be a 20 page thread about this issue if people were smart enough use the search function of this board:
http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=68227
anyway.. +1
http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=68227
anyway.. +1
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- Posts: 1205
- Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:29 pm
- Location: Norway
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- Posts: 1205
- Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:29 pm
- Location: Norway
- "Oh yeah, automating the filter frequency to go higher than 4.66kHz on that one note would be awesome"
- *Hurries to the filter freq automation field*
- Wtf? Gah, the vertical automation space is maxed out, despite the filter frequency not being on its *real* max, 19.9kHz.
- Solution: Click on filter, ctrl+g, map filter freq to macro 1, set maximum value to 4.66kHz and minimum value to 19.9kHz, automate macro 1.
- Now, where was I?
- Damn.
- *Hurries to the filter freq automation field*
- Wtf? Gah, the vertical automation space is maxed out, despite the filter frequency not being on its *real* max, 19.9kHz.
- Solution: Click on filter, ctrl+g, map filter freq to macro 1, set maximum value to 4.66kHz and minimum value to 19.9kHz, automate macro 1.
- Now, where was I?
- Damn.
I would argue that absolute and relative modes fro clips would not be so easy for a user to understand. Been reading Jef Raskin and I agree that this creates a confusing MODE with a difference too different than the original.forge wrote:we need relative/absolute buttons on the clipsSoma wrote:? This is how the clip automation always works. It is a % of the value set by the GUI control. The arrange view will automate the actual GUI.
For me the way it works is great. It provides a way to automate relative to an arangement. Much like an LFO or envelope on a synth.
If you want the orange clip to be louder, make the clip volume for the other clips less than 100% (what you really want is the other clips to be quieter)
It could be nice if you could automate one parameter absolute for each device on a clip: on/off (then you could add a utility with gain and automate that one on and off) but that would probably confuse most users.
However, if the envelope could create a nonlinear mapping from 0% to 100% with center = to the GUI's parameter value, then you have the ability of absolute automation with the same functionality as the current schema (0% to GUI value) with only ONE MODE (non modal).
For backward compatibility, old projects would have their envelopes adjusted to be in just the lower half of an envelope. This mode is Relative, bi_polar, and covers the range 0%-100%. I can draw some pictures later.
thanks for the link - I will finish reading it later, so without having read all of it I'll answer your point - firstly you would be trying to fit 200% into the space for 100% - too much is already squeezed into the bottom view of LiveSoma wrote:I would argue that absolute and relative modes fro clips would not be so easy for a user to understand. Been reading Jef Raskin and I agree that this creates a confusing MODE with a difference too different than the original.forge wrote:we need relative/absolute buttons on the clipsSoma wrote:? This is how the clip automation always works. It is a % of the value set by the GUI control. The arrange view will automate the actual GUI.
For me the way it works is great. It provides a way to automate relative to an arangement. Much like an LFO or envelope on a synth.
If you want the orange clip to be louder, make the clip volume for the other clips less than 100% (what you really want is the other clips to be quieter)
It could be nice if you could automate one parameter absolute for each device on a clip: on/off (then you could add a utility with gain and automate that one on and off) but that would probably confuse most users.
However, if the envelope could create a nonlinear mapping from 0% to 100% with center = to the GUI's parameter value, then you have the ability of absolute automation with the same functionality as the current schema (0% to GUI value) with only ONE MODE (non modal).
For backward compatibility, old projects would have their envelopes adjusted to be in just the lower half of an envelope. This mode is Relative, bi_polar, and covers the range 0%-100%. I can draw some pictures later.
I actually think your way would be more confusing because it is a change to the existing mode, but having a button would make it a clean cut - there are just different modes, either you enable it or you don't, and if you don't you never have to worry about it, ever.
I'm not sure why you think absolute/relative buttons would be more confusing than it is now - clip envelopes were introduced in Live 3 and we're up to 7 with 8 probably on it's way and there are still people who post asking "why do I have to turn up the sends before I can automate them?" etc
if there was a simple relative/absolute button then you could have it default to absolute for new clips, or set the default to whatever you like, and just have it set to relative for backwards compatibility and it would be exactly as it is now.
if you have it set to absolute we would have the groundwork for the session automation we all so badly want, allow hardware controllers to record straight in and we are there
if you play a clip with 'absolute' enabled and there is automation in the arrangement view then the 'BTA' light comes on and if you hit record it overwrites what is in there, that way you could have it on a per-track basis
and of course BTA buttons per track would help!