doepfer drehbank users, any left? advice plz or alternatives

[james.]

thinking of getting a doepfer derhbank as it does just what i need. loads of rotarys that i can map across live. i have see a few small mentions of jumping and irratic midi values and nervous to waste money. anyone using this kit id love to know how it works for you and if you had any problems. also if you got problems have you found a solution?

considering another alternative of chaining several faderfox ld2's but this will cost more i think and id love to have something a bit different like the derhbank. i reckon a custom unit would cost to much although would consider it if i found someone to build it. building my own is out of the question at the mo but maybe there are more options??

cheers

[oblique strategies]

I have two Drehbanks that I use simultaneously. They are great, nothing else quite like them. I rely on being able to see a lot of controls at the same time, & being able to see all the knob positions at the same time. I can mix, signal process, etc., without having to look at the computer screen if I don't want to -very handy.

I also have two Doepfer Pocket Dials which feature sixteen endless encoders, with four banks. While these ultimately equal the same amount of controllers as the Drehbanks (64 per unit), I have to switch between the four banks, & there is no visual indication on the units as to the position of a software knob. This means that they are not as intuitive. So, the Drehbanks became key.

The Faderfox LD2 solution has it's good points, & I considered this same option myself. The pros: endless encoders, push-button encoders, & nice build quality. The cons: endless encoders (! -see below), no way to see the position of more than one software knob at a time, & even more expensive than two Drehbanks.

I did just get an older Faderfox LX1 so I could have some button action, & I must report that it is excellent! Really fills in the missing part of my system.


Drehbank Issues
Issue 1: no longer being made, & probably no new ones left.
I bought my first from Analogue Haven, & got one of the last two new ones available. At $555.14 including tax & shipping, it was not cheap.

I bought my second on eBay, where they are rare. That cost $355 total. It had one knob that was sending out random MIDI data. The seller was excellent & responsible, & paid to have it fixed which cost $85.

So far, both have been very stable. Doepfer gear is high quality.


Issue 2: hard to edit them (so far) with either a Mac or a PC, which can cause issues when using additional MIDI controllers.
The editor provided by Doepfer is extremely out of date, & Windows only. In order to use this editor I have to have the following:
-Windows 3.x, 9.x, or NT
-a MIDI I/O with drivers for the old Windows OS.

I've tried various editors available for both Mac OS 9 & X, no luck there. So, I'm on a quest to find all the components I need (I have a PC as well as a Mac, & I recently acquired another MIDI I/O, so I guess I'll have to get all the old stuff together).

That being said, you may never need to edit anything, especially if you are only using one Drehbank, particularly if you are not using another MIDI controller at the same time.


The other thing is that, while they are great for live improvisation or creating in the moment, once your MIDI data has been recorded into the Arrangement, they are now less ideal than endless encoders. I have to explore this area more. I suppose I can use one of the Take Over modes to alleviate this, but I think I'd rather re-map the Pocket Dial to the session to tweak an Arrangement.

What I'm going to try next is a BCR2000 as a possible solution for the Arrangements. I Like that they have the LED rings to indicate the position of the software knobs. My fear is that they may be so practical that they make the Drehbanks superfluous! Not great considering the investment I've made in the Drehbanks.


Also, relying on gear that is no longer made, & which is costly to repair is taking a risk. Another reason I will have to check out the BCR2000s.

But to be honest, I love my Drehbanks! They are perfect for my live & improv work. I mix in quad to four speakers, so a lot of my controller needs are multiplied by four; means I need a lot o' knobs. I'm replicating more of a traditional mixer system, albeit in quad.


Bottom line: I think the issues are far outweighed by the benefits. If you think you'll like it & that it will help your work, then you've probably got it sussed & it most likely will. I wanted one for years because I knew it would be the right tool for the job; & it is. Hunt one down!

Hope some of this info is useful to you. Good luck!

[Angstrom]

I have a drehbank and at the moment it is open on my desk with a soldering iron sat next to it. For a bout 2 years it has sent out random data from pretty much every single knob. That's not good
I contacted Doepfer and the man himself advised me to try a few modifications to the smoothing capacitor. Anyway I'll spare you ... it still ain't working so I guess I ought to try something else.

In the two years where it steadily died I bought a BCR, just to get by - the BCR cost me £80, and the Drehband was about £230 (new)

since I got my BCR working I have not missed the drehbank at all. Not even slightly. It is only because I hate waste that I keep trying to fix the old beast. Even when it worked - the potentiometers were a real PITA because they don't match up with the songs that you load. That is crucial functionality.

I could buy 3 BCRs for the price of my Drehbank. I think I may certainly get another one soon, they are fantastic things - great value for money.

just a side note - the first BCR I bought had a subtle hardware problem, Behringer were quite professional and quick about swapping it. I was a bit surprised how good they were as they have a bit of a 'reputation' so I expected bad service. In fact they were a hell of a lot better than most other hardware suppliers, like Alesis for instance, who are rip-off bastards.

[oblique strategies]

I have a drehbank and at the moment it is open on my desk with a soldering iron sat next to it. For a bout 2 years it has sent out random data from pretty much every single knob. That's not good
I contacted Doepfer and the man himself advised me to try a few modifications to the smoothing capacitor. Anyway I'll spare you ... it still ain't working so I guess I ought to try something else.

In the two years where it steadily died I bought a BCR, just to get by - the BCR cost me £80, and the Drehband was about £230 (new)

since I got my BCR working I have not missed the drehbank at all. Not even slightly. It is only because I hate waste that I keep trying to fix the old beast. Even when it worked - the potentiometers were a real PITA because they don't match up with the songs that you load. That is crucial functionality.

I could buy 3 BCRs for the price of my Drehbank. I think I may certainly get another one soon, they are fantastic things - great value for money.

Thanks for the info. I've thought about using two BCR2000s to replace the Drehbanks. Especially for those sessions that have automation.

So you don't mind the bank/preset switching to get at all the knobs? Did you use all the knobs on your Drehbank?

Sorry to hear that your Drehbank is on the blink.

[Pitch Black]

...and the "spare parts vulture" circles...

[oblique strategies]

...and the "spare parts vulture" circles...

Not vultures: plural? We're in the same boat Mr. Black!

[james.]

thanks for the replys, still cant make my mind up. wish i could find a custom builder to see what sort of cost it would be but not had much look really.

still think the drehbanks would be great. having 2 thats just greddy you should give 1 to me and share the wealth haha. 1 was on ebay but the seller was unhelpful when i offered a buy it now and now its gone off so that could of been my only chance ggrrrr.

to get 4 LD2s would give a similar effect as you said but at a cost of something like £680 is probably a no no



hhmmm what to do. need to decide as i have a gig on the 1st of august and need to be ready by then

[Angstrom]

hhmmm what to do. need to decide as i have a gig on the 1st of august and need to be ready by then

I advise getting a BCR as they are cheap, damn easy to set up and they glow in the dark.

if you don't like it you can most likely return it!

[oblique strategies]

thanks for the replys, still cant make my mind up. wish i could find a custom builder to see what sort of cost it would be but not had much look really.

A custom MIDI controller, built exactly to your specifications, eh? Yes, that is the ultimate solution. This may be the way I have to go when Live finally has surround sound support cause I'll be wanting joysticks or touch pads on every channel & return!

still think the drehbanks would be great. having 2 thats just greddy you should give 1 to me and share the wealth haha.

I need my little babies, I really do.

to get 4 LD2s would give a similar effect as you said but at a cost of something like £680 is probably a no no

Similar, but lacking the visual feedback for all the knobs all the time; that's one of the Drehbanks trump cards. Though you would get encoders which are very handy & trump one of the Drehbanks weaknesses...

hhmmm what to do. need to decide as i have a gig on the 1st of august and need to be ready by then

Yow! Have you given any serious thought to getting a BCR2000, or an Evolution UC33 units? They might do what you need; they're inexpensive, easy to find, & you can always sell it if you don't like it. Plus theBCR2000s have the LED rings which trump the Faderfoxs lack of visual feedback.

Other options: You could also try to locate Doepfer Pocket Dial (encoders), or Pocket Control (potentiometers/or faders). But they are all discontinued, so they are long shots.

Another decent controller is the Bitstream 3x -do a search for it here or online. Really nice set o' features, kinda like the UC33.

Whatever you do, try to do it quickly so that you can develop a system, & get comfortable with it for your gig. But I'm sure you're feeling this pretty keenly already.

[james.]

yes thought about the bcr's but had a berhinger mixer some time ago and it was shit quite frankly. ppl do they the bcrs might be the exception tho to there general build quality.


not to worried about the gig. its only a dj/loop/remix/ some extra beats that kind of thing. i will be using my 01x some control and happy with that already just need some more hardware to allow me to tweak lots of things at once and send stuff around the set.

with the bcr it feels like it does to much really than what i need. dont need a mackie emulation and dont like bank switchin cause its gonna limit what i can get my hands to at any one time i think. least they are cheap which is tempting. anyone got some dimensions for it?

[Angstrom]

I think behringer audio mixers are the bottom of the quality barrel, the BCR is just about average for the market , but underpriced compared to similar offerings. EG: I had a pair of alesis monitors and an Edirol keyboard which died horribly due to bad engineering both of which are nestling next to the bin. I think it's just par for the course. If the BCR fucks up you get a free exchange anyway.

Remember that my 'well made' Drehbank is currently having a nervous breakdown, so you can't really be sure that any product is going to survive.

[james.]

just remembered another, the kenton spin doctor 16 knobs at about 90 quid

[oblique strategies]

thinking of getting a doepfer derhbank as it does just what i need. loads of rotarys that i can map across live.

Just saw a Drehbank for sale on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/DOEPFER-DREHBANK-MI ... .m14.l1318

Ends July 30.

[push]

thanks for the replys, still cant make my mind up. wish i could find a custom builder to see what sort of cost it would be but not had much look really.

Hey there. I'm in this exact same position. Watched a video recently (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwokqHDekVA) that inspired me to look into a custom build. Using the guy's BOM I was able to sketch out the idea for a 64 knob controller that would cost about 550 in parts. Not super cheap, but it does have USB out, is fully programmable, and will be rock solid. Plus, no one is making this kind of thing!

You can check out my BOM for the project here : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... mxOckxJaGc

Halemico.com is the place that makes most of the components. Seems like good people.

[glitchrock-buddha]

thanks for the replys, still cant make my mind up. wish i could find a custom builder to see what sort of cost it would be but not had much look really.

You can:
http://lividinstruments.com/hardware_elements.php

The half-size single row version with all knobs would be equivalent to the drehbank.