Logic 7 is still no match for Live-4

forge · Post by **forge** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 9:10 pm

I use Live pretty much exclusively these days, but until they sort out the plug-in delay comensation then the vst/i is not there yet

I'm starting to really have a problem with it

Abes should talk to Jules who designed Tracktion, I remember reading something in a magazine where he said it was easier than he thought it wouild be to implement

PookyNMR · Post by **PookyNMR** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 9:37 pm

Logic 7 = Garage Band Pro.

Writing is on the wall folks. Apple / Emagic merger is not a good thing.

Apple makes toy apps to sell Macs. I doubt that Apples invovlement has anything to do with improving pro audio. I think that can be evidenced by the number of new 'toys' and the lack of new innovation.

Nathan

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 11:21 pm

forge wrote:I use Live pretty much exclusively these days, but until they sort out the plug-in delay comensation then the vst/i is not there yet

I'm starting to really have a problem with it

Abes should talk to Jules who designed Tracktion, I remember reading something in a magazine where he said it was easier than he thought it wouild be to implement

Well, with Live the problem will always be that you can the audio to be played back instantaneously, and this needs to be completely fluid, which is less of a concern in a linear app like Tracktion.

-Paws

discoboy · Post by **discoboy** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:31 am

Logic 7 = Garage Band Pro.

Writing is on the wall folks. Apple / Emagic merger is not a good thing. Apple makes toy apps to sell Macs. I doubt that Apples invovlement has anything to do with improving pro audio. I think that can be evidenced by the number of new 'toys' and the lack of new innovation.

Nathan

I think Apples video applications prove that not to be the case. As for the toys iTunes and iPhoto are extremely useful as well as being revolutionary and free. If Apple have managed applefy Logic I would love to get my hands on it.[/quote]

PookyNMR · Post by **PookyNMR** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 4:06 am

I work with a few video people who mock FCP in it's most recent incarnations. These others think that Apple aquisitions might make the apps prettier, but not necessarily more innovative or functional for serious working professionals. And FCP does not have less bugs now either.

Nathan

bensuthers · Post by **bensuthers** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 4:36 am

what do they think of motion or shake, though?

Front Line Assault · Post by **Front Line Assault** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 5:37 am

This topic is so stupid. But I'm going to post my look on things anyway. Here is my look on it.

-Logic 7
-PROS
It has a nice look, and all that jazz. Has that apple touch to it and its ease of use. The internal synths are "OK" compared to alot of VST/AU instruments. For example, the reFX Vanguard is years ahead of any Logic instrument. Sure, it has the chord thingy and the score thingy and the other thingys. But when it comes down to making a "Audio Product", all that is just extra.
-CONS
For one, it does not even support the basic plugins like VST... whats up with this? Any DAW that does not have this needs to be burned. Anyway. Its mac only, and it has a god-damned dongle. So there goes one USB port.

-Live 4
-PROS
I must say, Ableton got it right. For little money. And small hardware requirements, midi support, VST/AU support, and just about everything sample wise, plus rewire support. This is great. The session view allows you to create new melodies and harmonies easily and the arrangement view allows you to map out your song.
-CONS
The skins are really bad. They should make a "3-d" skin or glassy "aqua" skin. The pitch modification on samples is piss-poor. so i ussually use Kontakt of somthing of the sort so i can get a good sound. And the VST/AU preset saving is jacked "atleast for me"

So, they both have their pros and cons. Not one is better than the other.

Next i want to address the statement that someone made, "Sure, you can use it as a Daw, but your doing it the hard(er) way." This is a bunch of BS. Live is a better DAW than Logic in my mind! 1- IT SUPPORTS VST, UNLIKE LOGIC 2-LOW CPU EFFECTS 3- UNCLUTTER VIEW 4-AUTOMATION OF EVERYTHING.

So that is my say

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 7:47 am

The VST format was never meant to be ported to OS X. Apple promised an OS level format instead, but they came there too late.

Software effects suck anyways

-Paws

forge · Post by **forge** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 10:54 am

yeah, I can see theres no point comparing the 2 - it might have been easy for jules but tracktion is a totally different program, I just mentioned it because I read that thing

for me though, the vst and vsti situation is on the whole fine with live 4, but it's not quite there until it has PDC because some plug-ins are completely unusable, which makes it pointless having the option.

Some of the waves plugs I can only use on the sends because the delay is so noticable as an insert - but even there it's annoying to not have any reliable accuracy

If it had that i would easily say it matches up to any other Pro DAW, but sadly its areas like that where Logic-base has the advantage

noisetonepause wrote:
forge wrote:I use Live pretty much exclusively these days, but until they sort out the plug-in delay comensation then the vst/i is not there yet

I'm starting to really have a problem with it

Abes should talk to Jules who designed Tracktion, I remember reading something in a magazine where he said it was easier than he thought it wouild be to implement
Well, with Live the problem will always be that you can the audio to be played back instantaneously, and this needs to be completely fluid, which is less of a concern in a linear app like Tracktion.

-Paws

lo-fi · Post by **lo-fi** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 11:23 am

I don't think you should compare Logic to Live. I've used Logic for a long time (Cubase before that), and I think it's the best program of it's kind. Of it's kind meaning DAW software that emulates a traditional recording studio (mixer, multitrack recorder, FX, etc...).

The thing is that a lot of dance/remix/loop-based musicians started using this type of software, because there wasn't anything around that catered directly for their needs. The first software to succesfully change the DAW paradigm for this type of musician was Ableton Live.

Live was created with a certain way of working in mind. If this fits with what you want to do, then Live will always beat Logic for you, no matter how many plug-ins they add. If you want to work traditional-DAW-style, then Logic will probably suit you better. It's horses for courses.

Personally, I've only been trying the Live 4 demo for a while. I quickly found that it works exactly how I wanted Logic to work all these years...

dpel · Post by **dpel** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 5:42 pm

lo-fi wrote:...Personally, I've only been trying the Live 4 demo for a while. I quickly found that it works exactly how I wanted Logic to work all these years...

how about the overall performance/reliability of the audio engine?
just curious,
dp

lo-fi · Post by **lo-fi** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:46 am

I'm not the one to ask; as I said, I've only been messing around with the demo for a while. I'll probably get the full version this week. If you're asking about Logic - that has been very stable for me on my G4. More so than Cubase SX. I never had problems with CPU load, but I'm not someone who uses a lot of plugins/tracks.

Benshik · Post by **Benshik** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 7:34 am

Front Line Assault wrote: The skins are really bad. They should make a "3-d" skin or glassy "aqua" skin.

there is space for improvement in Live's look, but I think their current interface is modern and stylish. there is an attempt to do something simple, minimal, and in that regard Live's look fits perfectly with it's "essence". It's also in the design world much trendier than glassy aqua skins, believe me, but I guess lots of white reebok/pony tail studio freaks think thats cool to have their music software look like their beloved video games.

)
For example - even though I love the synth, I think NI Absynth's interface looks horribly kitsch. Geiger meets Quake...
But ok, that's a question of taste...

bensuthers:
shake has got a quite good reputation in the industry, even though it didn't come as a breakthrough, while motion still has to catch up. with such low price, it might kill adobe after effects on the mac platform, which would really piss me off considering all the time I spent learning AE... I just feel that Apple is vampirising Ableton, Adobe, Discreet, Avid's creativity in order to make ther own apps...

Ben

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:02 pm

Absynth was designed by someone OD'ing on late 90's Star Trek...

-Paws

forge · Post by **forge** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 6:52 pm

noisetonepause wrote:Absynth was designed by someone OD'ing on late 90's Star Trek...

-Paws

or Just Czech Absynth, hence the name

Logic 7 is still no match for Live-4

omg

Re: omg