Live midi sync, how's it treating you?

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:49 am

dunno, maybe describe your best and worst case scenario.

which version of Live are you using?
what's your midi interface?
what gear is synced up?
what's master, what's slave?
loop or song mode?
MME or DirectMusic?
MIDI clock or MIDI Time Code?
do you sync Live to Live on other peoples' machines? how's that working?

me;
Live 7.07
BCR2k -> MPC1k
SL25 -> LX305 (MC505 w/keys)
Live is Master
song mode
MME (Direct Music sucks hard)
MIDI Clock (haven't played with this much)
have sync'ed to other machines running Live with no problems once we got them going.

I've also noticed things like when I enable a new audio input port I have to reset the midi clock delay, sometimes to zero, which is wrong.

btw to change your metronome's sound there's a resources folder in the Live program directory, it helps to have the same sound from all your gear so they can flange when tuned up tight.

amoeba · Post by **amoeba** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:40 am

current setup

macbook 2.16, 2G ram
live 7.0.7
clock and audio in/out > motu ultralight (FW)
used to be > m-audio FW410 (FW duh)
and before that > m-audio quattro (USB)
USB in/out direct > MPK49 (before that Axiom 49)
USB in/out direct > BRC2000 (x2)
(all devices below are being sent clock plus usual data - no clock coming back in)
USB in/out direct > virus TI (have used both the TC plug and seq mode)
USB in/out > midisport 8x8s > DSI Evolver
USB out > midisport 8x8s > MPG80 > MKS80
USB out > midisport 8x8s > A-Station
USB out > midisport 8x8s > Virus C
USB out > midisport 8x8s > MIDI/CV > Many tasty analog goodies

i have tried all of the above individually, and with different configs/chains/directs, etc. MTC and MC. loops, no loops, arrangements, sessions. doesn't matter, same whacky drifts. jeez, even with NOTHING plugged in you can see live's internal MIDI out light drifting...

i even have soft synths hosted INSIDE live that have their arps, msegs, lfos and any other timed parameters drift... even with multiple instances of the same damn plug using the same damn patch! incredible.

have tried the individual track latency settings as well. have to of course, to get everything lined up initially.

now, add an external clock as the master (electribes, an old roland R8, rm1x, whatever). still the drift on the passthru, and live itself gets lost when synced externally.

to make it even more fun, our band has 3 people, a live drummer plus me and another guy with similar list as me. NO WAY can either live serve as master. total chaos. very embarrassing in front of an audience.

we have tried routing the clock via wired and wireless ethernet, midi cable in and out of damn near every port and device available. slave adjusts latency, master adjusts latency. no diff. we can get the metronome nailed, for a bit anyway, then the drift, even with NO LOAD on either machine.

this just pisses me off. live6 was bad enough, but live7 is even worse.

and btw, logic does not have this problem at all. nor does DP. hell even reason can do it. even the unstable late betas of numerology can do it. why is live the special child here, bouncing in the back of the short bus? i think either a) deep fubar'd legacy code that is too scary to fix, or b) ableton just doesn't care.

i get upset every time i think about how much money i have given ableton over the years. i keep hoping they can fix this one crucial, fundamental, *severe* problem in an otherwise fantastic piece of software. it fit's our composition, recording and gigging process so damn well, but this clock issue is just f*cking unbearable.

ps: the PC rigs here are no different, so plz no mac hatin.

Sleep Tyght · Post by **Sleep Tyght** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:45 am

which version of Live are you using?

7.0.7

what's your midi interface?

Midisport 8x8 and MOTU Timepiece AV

what gear is synced up?

MPC 2000XL/4000/Triton Classic/Korg M3

what's master, what's slave?

Ableton Slaved...usually MPC 4000 or 2000XL as master.

loop or song mode?

Usually Song

MME or DirectMusic?

MME

MIDI clock or MIDI Time Code?

[b]Tried both but Midi clock works better.

do you sync Live to Live on other peoples' machines? how's that working?

N/A.

I've also tried the metronome idea mentioned in the other thread. Everything syncs for a while...then Live's timing begins to drift as usual.

Not fun times.

3dot... · Post by **3dot...** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:04 am

+1 for the Sync lag... to think I paid for this sw a long time ago...

plus it crashes when I send MCU MIDI data out to my controller...

Live 6 did not...

support were unable to assist...

Lenovo T5500 Intel C2Duo 2GB RAM WinXP....
RME multiface, L707, Evolver, R5 , Z3.

Sync+Midi-->Multiface Midi out
BCR2000->Midi OX->midiyoke->Mackie control+4 user remote scripts+remote
BCR2000-> bomes translator
Oxygen 8->midi/automap.
Multiface Midi In-> Midi (no remote)

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:34 pm

Sync is ok, but delay compensation never works as it's supposed to so I need to manually slide tracks around after recording sometimes. Sometimes it works fine, which is the most frutrating.

which version of Live are you using? 7.07
what's your midi interface? MOTU Ultralite or Elektron TM-1
what gear is synced up? Machinedrum or Korg EMX
what's master, what's slave? Live is always master, it's much worse when slave.
loop or song mode? Either.
MME or DirectMusic? Core MIDI
MIDI clock or MIDI Time Code? Clock

twisted-space · Post by **twisted-space** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:02 pm

Live 7.07 (but was the same in previous versions, back to 6.010)

emu 1616m midi, roland um4 usb midi interface or sl25 midi out

mme midi clock.
Have timing issues with all my kit if live is master, get major timing drift on anything that live passes clock to if live is the slave. I've recently got my hands on an emu px7, if I hang alll my other kit of that everything syncs up well except live which drifts after about 2 or 3 minutes.
Live 7 has made no difference at all.
I'm seriously considering getting rid of either
a; all my hardware and use the funds to go completely software based
(nice fast pc and maybe live suite)
b; get rid of live and use sonar instead, have used it in the past and had no issues with timing at all, it has better midi editing and is less of a resource hog, sadly it's nowhere near as much fun as live.
At the moment i'm using the px7 to sequence my midi kit and live is a modular mixing desk, and it still drifts even though it's only running fx
It's a bit sad really Live is about the most expensive DAW out there, yet it cant manage a simple thing like sending a stable midi clock.

j2j · Post by **j2j** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:26 pm

Great thread,

keep it coming... It is important for those of us, with and without hardware...

Obviously, I voted the last choice, I consider the OP a Tool

and I am dying for a nord...

but still I want to read this...

Lives midi engine had a v7 rewrite, did it not?

Are people reporting the problems to support?

landrvr1 · Post by **landrvr1** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:52 pm

Great thread, Tone.

Once my new synth arrives and I get her hooked up, I'll pop back in with a report on how it works as a slave.

Is it a bit bizarre that this is such a problem, and yet there aren't a whole lot more posts about the issue? I would imagine the majority of Live users probably don't do Midi sync to a piece of hardware, but still! Or am I wrong on that? Do the majority have a MIDI sync requirement? Why are there endless Trent Reznor and Penis and "How Does One Get This Bass Sound" threads, and not more "My Live MIDI sync is FUCKED!" threads?

Hopefully by a lot of folks posting their setup and usage, we can narrow down the parameters and check for some commonality. Good idea.

...

doc holiday · Post by **doc holiday** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:56 pm

I do not sync live to gear since v5, except for on rare occasions.

I use to sync alot of shit together

tr 707 as a master clock, to send DIN and MIDI at the same time.

707 -> 303 via din

707 -> 909 -> mpc2000 -> roland r 70 -> EA-1 -> live, midi out of live sending notes to synths

i never had an issue in this manner, but with live as a master i always had issues.

before live i used pro tools, and had PT LE as the master clock. This also worked great, never a drift.

before PT I used dat.

3dot... · Post by **3dot...** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:25 pm

only have this prob from v6...
with 7 the problem is way worse...
I have thinned out my midi output... and that seemed to work for the crashes...
(but at the price of not returning MCU data back to BCR...)
but the sync problem doesn't go away....

I've actually(sadly) learned to 'live' with this...
I had a very bad experience with this version...
(BSODs each set/with same midi config as v6)

it kinda threw me off working on the computer for a while..
(which was kindof nice actually...)
to this day...I can not trust live to be the clock Master to my ext gear....
seems that since live got more 'music making' tools...it got less performance friendly

don't get me wrong... I really LOVE v7's features and improvements...
just wish I could work reliably with ext.gear.... in a live situation...
or in the studio with other musicians...
kinda sucks...

Silverfish · Post by **Silverfish** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:32 pm

Live 7.0.7
interface: Alesis IO26, or E-MU
Syncet to Korg ESX-1
ESX-1 as Master works, Live as Master is fuxxord.
loop or song mode: both
MIDI clock.

I lied. As Slave, Live begins to drift. As Master, it's unusable.

Not cool, abletonians. Not cool at all.

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 5:56 pm

bump to make some noise on this.

I didn't know it was this bad.

landrvr1 · Post by **landrvr1** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:06 pm

Heh, speaking of timing.

Okay, got the new synth and MIDI interface and everything's hooked up.

which version of Live are you using?
7.0.2

what's your midi interface?
Motu micro lite

what gear is synced up?
Prophet 08, FCB1010

what's master, what's slave?
Live master

loop or song mode?
Either

MME or DirectMusic?
Core MIDI (MacBook)

MIDI clock or MIDI Time Code?
Clock

do you sync Live to Live on other peoples' machines?
No

Right now I've got Live acting as the Master.

The Prophet is playing a MIDI clip from External Instrument. The program used is actually utilizing the Prophet's step sequencer; with the internal clock set to receive from Live. It's an 8 bar clip with 4 note changes.

So far, the step sequencer/note changes are keeping time with Live's clock. It's been running for a couple of hours now, and I'll keep checking.

My test is, of course, very very basic.

...

abort · Post by **abort** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:13 pm

Seems about every five or four taps on the trigger finger I get a double?

live 7.0.9 m-audio audio phil 192 pci ...the card sucks though.

amoeba · Post by **amoeba** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:35 am

i finally got fed up enough that i bought logic last weekend.

guess what? same exact setup - NO PROBLEMS AT ALL.

logic is some deep deep shit. live does many things so much quicker and easier, but i need the stability of a good clock for what i do. and the built in effects are top notch.

so long ableton, it was fun for most of the time. i'm keeping my license incase you get your shit together...

Live midi sync, how's it treating you?

how's your stability?

Live midi sync, how's it treating you?

Re: Live midi sync, how's it treating you?