Why can I never finish a track?

[jonnytekno]

listen to your favourite artists best song for 6 hours a day for 2 days non stop, then see how much you love it. It will annoy the fuck out of you and it will seem stupidly simple and shit. Its one of the plagues of electronic music that we have to listen to our tracks OVER AND OVER again and can never get a song down as quick as say a singer songwriter. Just work through it. Just plough through and then leave it in a box for a few weeks to mature. come back and feel the warmth and glee of your song and maybe add some sparkle motion here and there.

I second this! If you loved it in the first place you have to hang on to that, and forget the fact that it sounds shit after you've listened to it a million times.

[The Phat Conductor]

-write transitions, not parts... there are a few simple arrangement rules that will keep things moving.

I'd like some more information on this please.

think of it in three main sections (which can obviously be expanded upon and switched up from tune to tune)

A-DROP - simplest form of your groove. it should be very engaging but SIMPLE. beats, bass, maybe a whooshing sound or a splash on the downbeat... see what you can get away with holding back on here. it might be that you don't use any 16th notes for a while... maybe you hold off on a vocal, maybe it's a synth lead you're not dropping here... who knows. just make it sick as hell without laying all of your cards on the table.

B-PLATEAU - expand on your drop here... your 2 bar riff might expand into a 4 bar riff. you might come with those 16th notes you've been holding off on (hats, shakers, congas, whatever... just busier rhythm now). you might really let rip with the melodies... this section is generally twice as long as the drop and it feels like you are 'there' now. it should feel full, and like it is 'cruising' along... jam that fucker out.

C-SECTION (hee hee) - this is basically something completely different than your drop + plateau. i used to call it the bridge, but there are so many ways to do this section it is better to be ambiguous. it could be a dubout, it could be a break, it could be a buildup, or it could be a breakdown... the main thing is to go away from your drop so you can lead back into it. if your song is long there might even be multiple c-sections... like a d-section too... whatever. they will all serve the same purpose. leaving the main groove for a bit and then returning.

your song will then go:

IN->A->B->C->A->B->OUT or some variation of that. just make sure it's a bit different and more interesting the second time the A + B sections come around or your songs will be boring.

soooo.... instead of writing riffs and shit, the REAL problems that are going to dictate the flow of the rest of the piece are:

1. how does the song drop?

2. how does the drop expand?

3. how do you leave and then return?

the rest is all filling in the blanks. make 3 good decisions at the beginning and you can fill in the rest as fast as you possibly can. noodle around forever and these 3 most important transitions are going to get lost in a sea of wank.

the rest... u gotta set up a session for

[trelax]

post above is 100% correct...

the reason you're getting bored with the track (regardless of the quality or originality of it) before finishing it most likely has to do with your approach to writing it.

I could be wrong, but Im guessing a majority of new (or old for that matter) producers design songs from beginning to end... For example: starting with a kick, adding a snare and other percussives for every couple bars, then feeling like its time to drop or breakdown, just like your favorite track does! So in comes a Bass synth with some SC compression and some kind of lead with a bit of texture underneath. So now you've got a song right... great intro and a nice verse lasting maybe 2-3 minutes, but where to go from here?

I think this is where a lot of writers block occurs because its difficult to just add and add and add for the sake of keeping interest, eventually things get muddy and your ear wants a (not too out of place) change.

If this seems to be your problem, trying "drawing" the arrangement before even sitting down at your DAW, and consider working backwards (I'll explain).

All songs, generally, have an intro, verse(s), breakdown(s), bridge, and outro as mentioned above. The Arrangement will end up looking something like an upside down pyramid. These parts can be any desirable length, and come in any order (assuming the intro and outro are on the ends, ofcourse). Now the outro can borrow pieces from the first half of the track so for now theres no need to worry about it, just know how long you might want it to be. The most important part of a track is generally the first verse(drop) or breakdown, and the way you build to that moment.

So if you think you can, design that meaty part of the track with all the elements in it first, and work backwards removing instruments/elements, shifting octaves, automating frequencies/filters/delays/reverb/resonation (great on strings) etc. If your verse has a lot of melody in it (changing progressive notes), the intro could start minimal and add parts of the melody up to the drop. Vice Versa if the drop is just heavy and "monochromatic" with a straightforward single repetitious note, maybe start with a more complex melody and progressively drop off parts of it each couple bars while the drums acquire layers to maintain the build.

Obviously this is somewhat of a template and the last thing you want is to sound overproduced like a bad pop song, but I'll use the analogy of writing literary papers or novels... there has to be an outline. An author has an idea of where the plot twists or resolution is generally going to occur before writing the story's introduction. You don't want to give away who commited the murder before setting the scene and creating some suspense. The ending scene in the movie "Memento" was probably the first scene shot ;]

[trelax]

did I write that much? sorry...

[Filterheadz]

http://www.43folders.com/2008/07/07/ira ... rough-suck

Ira Glass has some great advice...

cheers,

Bert

[contakt321]

http://www.43folders.com/2008/07/07/ira ... rough-suck

Ira Glass has some great advice...

cheers,

Bert

that is a really great video, thanks for sharing!

[sweetjesus]

http://www.43folders.com/2008/07/07/ira ... rough-suck

Ira Glass has some great advice...

cheers,

Bert

welcome to the board, dig ur stuff.. also that video is pretty cool.. it's so true about having to do such a large volume of work.

once in a while we fluke and get past the suck but overall it is indeed a matter of shortening the gap between skill/quality/outcome and ones taste.

almost everything i made this year is better than what i made last year and almost everything i made last year is better than the year before.. and thats all one can ask for despite our desires.

[dj superflat]

this is funny, because what you're describing as a song to me seems like an arrangement in search of a song. that is, you need the song part first, then you can fiddle about with how the drums and bass work together to make it all work. i recognize my way of thinking is waaaaaaaaaaay outdated for many styles of music (and, to be fair, back in the day all sorts of songs started with just a guitar riff, which in many cases is little different from starting with the beat).

[MTG]

-write transitions, not parts... there are a few simple arrangement rules that will keep things moving.

I'd like some more information on this please.

think of it in three main sections (which can obviously be expanded upon and switched up from tune to tune)

A-DROP - simplest form of your groove. it should be very engaging but SIMPLE. beats, bass, maybe a whooshing sound or a splash on the downbeat... see what you can get away with holding back on here. it might be that you don't use any 16th notes for a while... maybe you hold off on a vocal, maybe it's a synth lead you're not dropping here... who knows. just make it sick as hell without laying all of your cards on the table.

B-PLATEAU - expand on your drop here... your 2 bar riff might expand into a 4 bar riff. you might come with those 16th notes you've been holding off on (hats, shakers, congas, whatever... just busier rhythm now). you might really let rip with the melodies... this section is generally twice as long as the drop and it feels like you are 'there' now. it should feel full, and like it is 'cruising' along... jam that fucker out.

C-SECTION (hee hee) - this is basically something completely different than your drop + plateau. i used to call it the bridge, but there are so many ways to do this section it is better to be ambiguous. it could be a dubout, it could be a break, it could be a buildup, or it could be a breakdown... the main thing is to go away from your drop so you can lead back into it. if your song is long there might even be multiple c-sections... like a d-section too... whatever. they will all serve the same purpose. leaving the main groove for a bit and then returning.

your song will then go:

IN->A->B->C->A->B->OUT or some variation of that. just make sure it's a bit different and more interesting the second time the A + B sections come around or your songs will be boring.

soooo.... instead of writing riffs and shit, the REAL problems that are going to dictate the flow of the rest of the piece are:

1. how does the song drop?

2. how does the drop expand?

3. how do you leave and then return?

the rest is all filling in the blanks. make 3 good decisions at the beginning and you can fill in the rest as fast as you possibly can. noodle around forever and these 3 most important transitions are going to get lost in a sea of wank.

the rest... u gotta set up a session for

great advice!

[Tone Deft]

nice post Phatman.

I find I can't compose fer shit. I can noodle and play around, make scenes but when it comes to arranging I usually resort to capturing scenes, moving them to arrange view, sketch out where the intro and ending are then work on filling in the bits. where this fails is that I lose all sense of coherency or vibe to the track, a song is linear, one direction and I try to compose looking at it all at once.

[The Phat Conductor]

one more piece of free advice.

try not to keep adding things.

it is MUCH better to figure out new ways to work with the parts you already have.

to me adding a new sound is like admitting defeat... it is saying 'i am not creative enough to make new variations on the sounds i have chosen so im just going to tack on some shitty crash sample from a sample cd'.

booooo

[rasputin]

I start one, ..

Because your not yet skilled enough to finish one, keep trying.

"I bought a $700 tennis racket last month, why have I not won Wimbledon yet?"

Asinine question.

"Keep trying"? THAT'S your advice?? No, THAT'S asinine. Imagine hiring a tennis coach whose teaching method is to tell you to "keep trying".

At least previous posters contributed some actual suggestions. Which I too found useful unlike your supercilious put-down.

Meanwhile onto something constructive. To OP: Try to finish up some of your less inspired efforts anyway, and save them. Then if in future if your tracks start to click and sell, and you become famous, even your old boring duff tracks will be worth millions! And if you're famous, you'll be so busy fighting off fans and record labels you'll have little time to write new tracks.

Maybe others have suggested:

-- if the style you're trying to work in is EBM or hard dance or something, try a "glitch" or downtempo piece.
-- listen to the Reason demo song called "Four notes". Shows what you can do with simple material. (If you don't have Reason and don't want to buy it, you can still play and examine the song in the demo version.)
-- don't worry about if a breakdown or transition seems jarring. In Live you can at least tempo match it with simplicity, and maybe a complete volume/key/other change might work

[Pitch Black]

nice post Phatman.

I find I can't compose fer shit. I can noodle and play around, make scenes but when it comes to arranging I usually resort to capturing scenes, moving them to arrange view, sketch out where the intro and ending are then work on filling in the bits. where this fails is that I lose all sense of coherency or vibe to the track, a song is linear, one direction and I try to compose looking at it all at once.

This is where its sooooo good to have a collaborator. When I hit saturation point on a song, I can sit back on the sofa, perhaps indulge, and play "client" while Mike picks up the ball and runs with it for a couple of hours... all I have to do is say "like it!" or "like it!, what about..."

Switching over headspace from Artist to Producer and back again is one of the toughest mind-tricks to pull off reliably, IMHO. You want to be able to just "charge" and throw someting down then have somebody (sometimes this has to be you) give you objective feedback after you've done it. In the older terminology of the word "producer", that role is someone who sets the stage for the artist, sets up the physical, mental, emotional, technical and musical conditions to allow the musician to excel at what it is they do best. After the musician has done their take the producer offers encouragement, feedback, direction, and suggestions on where to go next [which may very well include down the pub, BTW]

The self-censor comes in when you try to act out both roles at once. I find I have to conciously trick myself into jumping between either headspace. For the musician, it's dim lighting, good monitoring, turning the screen off, and trying to get into an "on stage on a wicked night and the crowd is heaving" frame of mind. Playing other people's tracks I like up loud is an invaluable help before doing a take.

Unfortunately the act of electronic music creation is by no means always conducive to this headspace, what with creating tracks, assigning MIDI controllers, creating patches, and keeping track of everything etc etc.

To put my "producer" hat on, I invariably need to have a break from the music/room/computer, listen to some other tracks that I aspire to, then with the screen turned off listen down from the head of the track. It's really good to have someone in the room listening with me at this point, it makes me so much more critical. I'll take a few notes on paper about specific things/corrections, and then get in and do them while I still have my producer hat on. <---This is where the critic/censor is allowed to rear his ugly head. Once those have been attended to, I'll usually take a short break before approaching from the musician headspace again.

This musician-producer/left brain-right brain switch is something I'm glad to have identified as necessary for myself and something I'm always working to improve upon... Again, having a collaborator to bounce off is the ideal scenario for me - even if it is an "imaginary friend"...

[trelax]

Hey Phat I just made the connection that you did that remix of Illectrolingus... loved your take. the train horns are great, emotive. Where'd those come from?