developing your ideas, creating variations, etc

andrew_ · Post by **andrew_** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:22 am

Any tips for building up / extending individual sections of tracks?

A lot of the feedback I get about my work is "Make it longer!"

I know with my songwriting stuff I get lazy and just go Verse Chorus Verse Chorus DONE a lot of the time, so I can suck that up and write a bridge and maybe a verse 3, throw another chorus on the end.

But on the electronic side of things I'm ending up with < 3-minute tracks that I know a more accomplished producer could pull out to 5 minutes and still keep interesting. I think my problem is that I do something for say 8 bars, which even with my short attention span feels too short, but musically it doesn't warrant repeating for 16 with nothing different but a drum fill at the end or whatever.

I have a few things I can think of doing but they don't work in every situation...
- add a countermelody
- add a harmony to an existing line
- extend the section so it repeats twice, and try removing something from the first pass
- lots of laser sounds

logic_user99 · Post by **logic_user99** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:53 am

My suggestion would be this - don't work on adding more parts, think about the sound. The 'Resonator' pluggin is EXCELLENT for adding variation to a part, esp. bass sounds.

I know what you mean about extending things; my problem is the reverse! I end up writing 10-minute epics with vast repeated sections. Gotta shorten them down.

Maybe jam out your tracks in Session view and see what magic happens?

andrew_ · Post by **andrew_** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:21 pm

I definitely need to play with Session View more. Even with non-destructive editing and infinite undo I will jam for like 3 minutes and then be like "Hm k gonna stop now and fix that last bit before I move on" - when I probably should be letting loose for like 20 minutes and record everything that happens....

Thanks man.

arafel · Post by **arafel** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:14 pm

Hit Record and Jam!

Those nuggets of goodness are there, you just need to give them some time to bubble out - and have them recorded so you can go back, and add them into your song structure.

Check out how the assistant, has to record everything that Peter Gabriels does - audio and midi, from the moment he walks into the studio.

http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=7080

pbanken · Post by **pbanken** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:18 pm

Refering to arafel:

The Peter Gabriel stuff is pretty nice, but it crumbles when compared to the 4-part feature that you can find on the sonic state website: Portishead ... now that's something to watch, I still marvel at the sheer beauty of this studio enviroment.

Dig into sonic state's vid archive, you'll find it there ... amazing stuff! I guarantee you will be inspired to try something new after these vids flew by ...

Grappadura · Post by **Grappadura** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:33 pm

Use the arpeggiator, the chord, the random, the scale and the velocity plugin, and record the midi output on another track. Then edit what you like. Mount those in a rack. With the velocity plug you can randomly mute notes, setting the first velocity to random and the second to gate.

Rinko · Post by **Rinko** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:42 am

if you want variations on your existing loops/sections/whatever you could try using an additive synth like Image Line's Morphine which has a resynthesize feature - resynthesize parts of your track and manipulate them for variation!

might add something to your:

- add a countermelody
- add a harmony to an existing line
- extend the section so it repeats twice, and try removing something from the first pass
- lots of laser sounds

its a bit like sampling yourself i guess - to be honest i've only messed with the demo of Morphine but i'm definitely gonna save up and drop some cash on the full version.

pbanken · Post by **pbanken** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:33 pm

Dear Grappadura,

would you be so kind to explain your mehtod a bit further (more in detail)? It sounds very interesting, but when it comes to your advice to mount alle these Midi effects into a rack, I get a bit lost.

Maybe you could explain your method of creating such a rack in more detail. I am pretty sure that it would be appreciated a lot by other users, not to mention my gratiude!

Thanks a lot,

pbanken

theghosthand · Post by **theghosthand** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 1:51 am

i'd also love to get a 'numbed down' version of that rack description...

would you be so kind to explain your mehtod a bit further (more in detail)? It sounds very interesting, but when it comes to your advice to mount alle these Midi effects into a rack, I get a bit lost.

Grappadura · Post by **Grappadura** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:35 am

Hi PBanken,

I do it like this: Create Midi Rack. First comes the arp, or maybe two arps. When it comes to working with arps, the covert operators www.covops.org have some good tips. Its important that the second arp plays faster notes, first one could be playing 8ths (with length of notes over 50%), second 16ths.

After that I´d put in a random device.

After that come two (or even three) velocity plugins. The first velocity creates random velocity, the notes might come out with velocities from 1 to 128. The second velocity gates all velocities below (or above) a threshold, say 30, this way all notes below a velocity of 30 are muted. The third velocity then gives all the notes that passed the gate a new velocity (so in the end you don´t have any excluded velocity range).

Then, if you want chords, put in a chord device.

After that comes the scale plugin. I like to set it up in a way that only 4 or 5 notes are played, which each sound well together. Here´s the midi rack:

http://www.zshare.net/download/167630457a95c9f9/

I suggest playing with: The arps rate, gate, steps and distance, the random plugin scale- and chances parameter, turn the chord off or use a monophonic instrument (thats fun!), and of course play with the scale.

Have fun!

Ah and to record midi notes: create another midi track, set midi in from the track with the arp and push the "monitor in" button. Record enable, make a clip and then edit what you like.

You don´t really need the rack, but its easyer to save like that, so you always have it at hand. Of course you can map the parameters of the midi effects to the racks macros as you like.

pbanken · Post by **pbanken** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 3:05 pm

Thank you very much indeed for your help!

I'm looking forward to trying that in an upcoming project of mine!

Cheers, pbanken