PRODUCING with Live 4

Share what you’d like to see added to Ableton Live.
supster
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Location: Orlando FL

PRODUCING with Live 4

Post by supster » Tue Oct 19, 2004 7:30 am

Reading forum posts I get the impression that
a lot of people are using Live as a performance
app - which it was originally designed as.

However - particularly with Live 4 - there is a growing
base of us that are leaving Cubase / Logic etc behind,
and are using it as thier primary sequencer and production
tool.

Live is thouroughly amazing - but needs some additional
features in order to excell as a production sequencer.

Please forgive me if any of these have been raised here
before - havent had a chance to read the entire wishlist
forum

1 IMPROVED ARRANGEMENT VIEW

The arrangement view is key to sequencing and big
picture arrangement.


a. MIDI Editing Directly in Arrangement Window.

Currently it is confusing to edit entire tracks and see
the flow of your MIDI over the entire song using just
the clip editing on the bottom.

Keep the current clip editing on the bottom, but
implement the ability to edit MIDI clips right on the track
ala Cubase / Logic / PT. (fold / unfold this view the in
the same way and same place as automation tracks)

b. Markers for Song Arrangement

Live needs markers to mark off song sections in the
Arrangement view. Not necessarily a marker track ala
Cubase, but some way of marking off chunks of time
devisions and labeling them clearly. Add color choice
to these markers as well.

Personally I trust Ableton to come up with a devestatingly
simple and effective way of implementing this :)


c. Vertical Zooming

Arrangement view currently allows horiziontal zooming,
but not vertical. We need to be able to zoom in on tracks
in both dimensions, easily


d. Zooming directly on Arrangement Window

Currently we need to move cursor up to the timeline in
order to zoom. Too awkward.

Implement a hotkey that allows us to change the cursor
to the magnifying glass at the current position, and zoom
horizontal / vertical


e. Pos / End / Length / Offset Buttons on Arrange View.

Clipview has --> arrows that allow us to jump to the
beginning loop point, end, and zoom out on the the entire
loop in one click. We need to be able to do this for the entire arrangment loop. It is tedious without them.

Put the controls right at the top, between the overview
and the timeline. Then "click,click" we can zoom around
our arrangement the way we do a clip.


2 HOTKEYS

a. User Configurable Hotkey Combos

Why are the hotkeys currently frozen to default?
We need to be able to map hotkeys to whatever keys are
most convienient for us personally.

A huge part of being totally efficient and quick in using an
app lies in personalizing the hotkey mappings to our preference.
The current mappings are pretty logical overall, but in some
cases awkward.

This might be even more important for Live performance,
actually. User hotkeys allow us to "play" an app like an
instrument. Not having them is a major oversight.


b. MORE Hotkeys.

On same tip: every function in Live where it makes sense
to have one, should allow a user configurable hotkey combo.
There are many that are missing. Cubase is excellent in this
respect, if a little awkward in how the functions are
organized / named in the tree.


3 COLORING / NAMING

Keeping track of clips via naming and coloring is CRUCIAL
to keeping track of what is going on, organization, and
working intuitively. It is the only way to make clear
distinctions between sounds, of which we have multiple
versions constantly being modified.

For both coloring and naming, currently, we need to move
the cursor all the way down to the left of the screen in
order to make changes. Very tedious and awkward.


a. Change Color / Name Directly on Clip

- Hold hotkey modifyer, click on clip. "Colorwheel"
or dropdown appears right THERE. Click to change color.

- Hold hotkey modifyer, click on clip. Type new name.
BAM. Done.


b. More Colors.

Self explanatory. We need more colors / shades to
distinguish sounds.


c. Full Name Appears by Hovering Cursor on Clip

I agree with this suggestion. We need to have more
charachters to name clips. Allowing longer names, with
a pop up on cursor hover, allows this.


4. SAMPLE MANAGEMENT

The ability to preview clips with one click is beautiful. This is
only half the battle toward quickly and intuitively choosing
sounds.

Live needs improved sample management. We should
be able to:

- Create new folders in the sample preview window

- Cut / copy / move / drag drop - samples from folder to
folder right in this view

- Allow "favorites" folders to jump instantly to priority
sounds. Preferably with hotkeys.

Instantly organizing our collections of thousands of samples
will be 100 times easier, therefore more intuitive for
producing music. Or playing live for that matter.

--

Live needs features like this to fully compete with the
major sequencers. Which, IMO it is already putting to
shame in other areas, particularly for EDM styles of music.

If you agree with any of this, please add your support -
suggestions - modifications! Thanks for having the patience
to read thru ...

auxbuss
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:25 pm

Post by auxbuss » Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:04 am

Excellent ideas. I wholehearedly support them.
Best,
Marc
www.auxbuss.com
'HALion Unleashed' online and CDROM

Martyn
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Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2003 11:22 am
Location: UK

Post by Martyn » Tue Oct 19, 2004 12:34 pm

Yeah, me too, especially marker track and more colours.

A midiable marker track would be good, where you can switch to different markers on beat from a keyboard. This'd most creative in a live situation.

drez
Posts: 552
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 10:23 pm
Location: United States

Post by drez » Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:16 pm

Wow, Supster! 8O

Thank you for writing such an eloquent post with constructive feedback! Lots of work on your part, so I thank you.

AND I agree with your ideas. I hope to see Ableton put those things on the list as well.
http://www.soundcloud.com/dreznicek
MacBook M1 Pro Max, 64Gig RAM, 4TB internal SSD, Live 11, Push1/2/3, Reason, VST O'Plenty

drez
Posts: 552
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 10:23 pm
Location: United States

Post by drez » Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:16 pm

Martyn wrote:Yeah, me too, especially marker track and more colours.

A midiable marker track would be good, where you can switch to different markers on beat from a keyboard. This'd most creative in a live situation.
This one is huge for me as well.
http://www.soundcloud.com/dreznicek
MacBook M1 Pro Max, 64Gig RAM, 4TB internal SSD, Live 11, Push1/2/3, Reason, VST O'Plenty

Former Pharaoh
Posts: 467
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:42 pm
Location: Inside Britney's vag

Post by Former Pharaoh » Tue Oct 19, 2004 3:12 pm

I agree with a lot of these requests. One important wish that i did not see listed but find equally important is the capability to choose an option in preferences to have files in the file browser pre-listened in their normal BPM range. I DEFINITELY like the fact that you can preview a file in the same BPM selected in the session view, this makes sense for realtime live performance. However, sometimes, this is not necessary so it would be nice to be able to preview files in their normal state.

auxbuss
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:25 pm

Post by auxbuss » Tue Oct 19, 2004 3:46 pm

Former Pharaoh wrote:... equally important is the capability to choose an option in preferences to have files in the file browser pre-listened in their normal BPM range.
Good call.
Best,
Marc
www.auxbuss.com
'HALion Unleashed' online and CDROM

elemental
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Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 7:42 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Post by elemental » Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:35 pm

Some excellent points there.

Hope the abletons take them on too.

tylast
Posts: 652
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2003 10:58 pm

Post by tylast » Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:07 pm

Nice! I think you just may have added a few months onto the Live V5 release. :wink:

noisetonepause
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Location: Sticks and stones

Re: PRODUCING with Live 4

Post by noisetonepause » Fri Oct 22, 2004 9:02 pm

supster wrote:c. Vertical Zooming

Arrangement view currently allows horiziontal zooming,
but not vertical. We need to be able to zoom in on tracks
in both dimensions, easily
1) Expand the track (so you can see the wave)
2) Grab its lower edge below the drop down menus or mute/solo buttons (ie. the right side of it, not in the arrange view itself)
3) Drag down

:)

-Paws

pix
Posts: 261
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:32 am

Post by pix » Sat Oct 23, 2004 8:13 am

mouse right button opening edit... :roll:

supster
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Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 6:26 am
Location: Orlando FL

Re: PRODUCING with Live 4

Post by supster » Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:49 am

noisetonepause wrote:
supster wrote:c. Vertical Zooming

Arrangement view currently allows horiziontal zooming,
but not vertical. We need to be able to zoom in on tracks
in both dimensions, easily
1) Expand the track (so you can see the wave)
2) Grab its lower edge below the drop down menus or mute/solo buttons (ie. the right side of it, not in the arrange view itself)
3) Drag down

... well .. yes and no ... :)

Yes you can have a bit more room for envelope tweaking.

No you cant zoom everything vertically (clips, tracks, track mixer) like a normal sequencer can. Not the same

As it is now, when you use the Cntrl / Mac key while the cursor is over the arrangement view, it does nothing.

Why not hook it up so that your magifying glass appears when you use it. Then do real zooming on your arrangement.

Thats what you naturally want to do.
Last edited by supster on Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

supster
Posts: 2133
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 6:26 am
Location: Orlando FL

Post by supster » Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:50 am

pix wrote:mouse right button opening edit... :roll:

Well, yeah ... :roll: :?: hehe

supster
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Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 6:26 am
Location: Orlando FL

Post by supster » Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:52 am

Gonna keep this *bumped* ... the more I am working this the more I realize we need these types of things

Producers jump in man ..

Vercengetorex
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Location: Brooklyn, NYC

Post by Vercengetorex » Tue Oct 26, 2004 7:12 pm

I am a very long time Live user, and I have to say I like many of your ideas, except the vertical zoom. I would like the ability to change the size of all unfolded arrange view tracks simultaneously however.
I cant think of a sig

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