Guitarist / Songwriter Question - Is Live Overkill?

bradesp · Post by **bradesp** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 9:08 pm

Guys/Gals,

Want to sketch my song licks and ideas to computer and then build up to full blown compositions. Nothing fancy, but want to use something like amplitude for getting virutal guitar amp sounds. Also want something for vocal procession. Lastly, want to be able to drag in realistic sounding drum and bass loops and / or midi files and create professional sounding songs.

Is Live + VST plugins overkill ? If not, then why, If yes, then what would you recommend as an alternative.

BTW, I have NO previous DAW experience.

THanks!

bradesp

Jomdom · Post by **Jomdom** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 9:22 pm

Live sounds like just what you need.

krusty · Post by **krusty** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 9:57 pm

Live is a GREAT tool for singer/songwriters to sketch and construct songs. It's super easy to move entire sections around to see how they sound/fit in different places. It's also really inspiring to be able to load up drum loops in a clip slots and mess around with riffs and changes.

Amplitube is pretty cool too. The best part being that you can save settings and recall them exactly to allow for working on tunes over time. Though Amplitube can get some great direct sounds, I think you'll still want to experiment with a mic and tube amp to get truely killer, airy guitar sounds but then I'm really obsessive about guitar tones.

The drum loops available vary quite a bit in quality. I like Drums on Demand's loops but I use live's effects to mess them up to rid them of that "Toto" sound they often have. The Drums on Demand CD's can be had for around 20-30 dollars USD on ebay.

So my winded response is a big YES!!! Live rocks for the singer/songwriter/guitarist who wants something fast and inspiring to write/arange/demo and beyond with.

Hope this was helpful

mthomashow · Post by **mthomashow** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:47 am

LIVE is also great for beginners. I started using it about a year ago and I had no DAW experience. It was an accessible and fun way to get started. Since then I have gotten more deeply into soft synths and I've picked up LOGIC 7 (mainly for the great soft synths). But I could certainly be happy using LIVE exclusively. It has a simple, uncluttered interface, it is reasonably easy to understand, yet it has great depth and you can really grow with it. It's also very flexible, and although it receives most of its accolades from loopers and beat manglers, it is every bit as appealing for straight ahead songwriter types like you and me. Also, you can get alot of interesting guitar effects with LIVE alone. I've had alot of fun using the resonator effects with my Parker.........Pick it up...it will enhance your music and most importantly it will really help you grow as a musician.

AdamJay · Post by **AdamJay** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 11:18 am

Live is DEFINITELY not overkill for your purposes. Logic would be overkill, Digital Performer might be overkill, Live is certainly NOT overkill.

You say you have no previous DAW experience, then lets keep it that way. After a week or two of using Live i think you will find yourself quite comfortable writing and arranging music on the computer. One thing i love about live is every week i learn something new, but its an "extra" bonus something new - not a critical task that took me 2 months to learn. You get the basics down pretty quick and then constantly learn and develop your craft the more you use the application. Its one of the few out there that really give back to you the more you use it. 1 great side effect to that is it keeps the process from ever getting boring.

bradesp · Post by **bradesp** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 11:53 am

Thanks guys for the comments... Sounds like Live is exactly what I'm after.

About realistic sounds though, getting a solid drum sound is important to me... Are tips on what "extras" to buy (loops, Plug-Ins, etc.) that will help me achieve this?

Also, how about advice on a solid, high quality USB input device for recording? Any thoughts on Edirol, Maudio, etc. devices?

Thanks!

bradesp

fatrabbit · Post by **fatrabbit** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 2:20 pm

Just to add my opinion, I think Live will suit your needs!

I used Logic for about 2 years, and of course it is fantastic, but it does have (arguably) a steep learning curve. As someone else said, the basics of Live are easy (RTFM!), but the more you use it, the more and more it gives back with new little tips and tricks that you pick up!

Don't get me wrong, I love Logic, especially the plug-ins etc., but I just don't find it a very inspiring environment to work in. I find Live to be quick, easy, but most of all, fun!

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 2:50 pm

For easy to get at, great sounding drums and bass look at Spectrasonics Trilogy and Stylus. Stylus does have a 'sound' to it, but it's one that I personally like a lot.

And yes, Live is just what you need

-Paws

mikepinkerton · Post by **mikepinkerton** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 5:57 pm

Keep in mind that Live has no "count-in" for recording unlike other DAW apps. Makes it more difficult to quickly record guitar and vocals as you have to manually prune the space. You can hack it with MIDI, but not for audio tracks.

-Mike

bradesp · Post by **bradesp** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:47 pm

mikepinkerton,

What does lack of "count-in" mean? Not being a DAW user, I have no context. Is this a big deal?

Also, I in the Software Biz, so learning a new program doesn't worry me too much (with the exception of the time required to master a sophisticated program).

Thanks,

bradesp

mikepinkerton · Post by **mikepinkerton** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 11:51 pm

Live starts recording the instant you hit play with record enabled. If you play guitar, it generally takes a few seconds to get your hands off the keyboard or mouse and back to the guitar and then get ready to play. This is all being recorded on the track.

Other apps allow you to have a 4-beat (or so) count-in so you can get ready and get in time with the other tracks that are playing before it starts recording. If you're recording in the middle of your song, they play the other tracks for those 4 beats so that you know exactly where you're coming in.

It's a huge oversight for recording live instruments. I'm stunned they don't have it.

-Mike

bradesp · Post by **bradesp** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:19 pm

Mikepinkerton,

Wow, that is a huge oversight. Has this come up before in the forum? If so, has anyone obtained feedback from Ableton on their plans for adding this capability in the future? Seems like a very simple enhancement.

bradesp

AdamJay · Post by **AdamJay** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:42 pm

live does NOT start recording the instant you hit record, this is absolute misinformation.
since recording to a clip is much like launching a clip, Live records based on how you have your launch quantization settings configured.

lets say you are wanting to overdub a guitar to a live drum track in session view.....
using a midi foot pedal assigned to the Record trigger (or start trigger of a recording armed channel) of a blank clip in your recording channel...
if you want 1 lead in bar, set your launch quantization to "1 bar" in preferences, defaults. or 2 bars or 4 bars whatever you prefer.
as the music is playing, tap your record pedal just after the first beat of what would be your 4 count lead in bar. recording will start on the next bar.
Aassigning other tap-able pedals to the "stop", "auto" and "off" record functions of the track will allow you to record, stop recording, and start playing back the live recording without the sequencer ever stopping. All totally hands free for your pick and neck.

most guitarists use plenty of foot pedals, when using a guitar with a midi application, i don't see why a guitarist would be without a midi foot pedal.
If you view Ableton as an effect for your guitar, such as a looping effect, the midi foot controller is simply an extension of the interface for that effect.

i've been doing live drum programming in my live sets much in the same fashion. (think handheld button controller instead of foot controller) for me its good to have that bar or 2 of lead in, non recorded prep time to get ready to knock out the rhythm.

Check out chapter 15 of the manual sometime.

Live is grand!

rikhyray · Post by **rikhyray** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 1:57 pm

I was very surprised, realising absence of something so essential. Well, the origin of Live is more "re creator", loop juggler tool then creators. So what, give it up ???, and all the great possibilities or find other way. There are lots or musicians not just djs and remixers using Live. Why ? How? I guess everybody finds his own way around the limitations. I am OK now, developed my own tricks, hardly use Cubase anymore. I will welcome the count in when they apply it, but can work without it, no big deal.

::mic-minimal:: · Post by **::mic-minimal::** » Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:23 am

like adamjay said.....read up on global quantize in the maual.
sheesh.