[OT] Is USA and The World safer now due to Bush?

[nz]

This kind of $%^&* has no place on this forum. Go take your political views somewhere more appropriate. This forum is not the place for this!

nz

[AdamJay]

thats what the " [OT] " is for.
it means Off Topic if you didn't know. and you don't have to click on it. if you'd prefer to only read on topic posts.

[special ed]

help·less

1. Unable to help oneself; powerless or incompetent.
2. Lacking support or protection: They were left helpless in the storm.
3. Impossible to control; involuntary: helpless laughter.
4. Special Ed.

go die in a act of terror you american pig piece of shit. your life is not worth anything, you are probably nothing but typical milkfed midwestern white american trash. you pretend to know me bitch? take your faggotass from indianapolis up here to chicago, and meet me if you got a problem. you will learn the true definition of helpless. fuck you america, you are the nation of all whores. its no wonder the fucking world hates you. you deserved a taste of your own medicine. you fucking terrorize the rest of the world so you can feel safer at night. america is the foundation of terror, look at how it came to be, by genocide and slavery. if you dont like that fact, thats your problem, you fucking nazi police state. you act hostile towards me, i will deal it back in spades bitch. i wish you were in the wtc's when they fell, they would still be here if your mom was sitting on top with her legs spread.

[AdamJay]

why not just say "i have a small penis and it annoys me"
because thats really what you are trying to say, isn't it?

[futureproof]

anyways.......

[sps1]

It's these kind of FACTS that make up my view on the state of the world.
people give bush way too much credit, you need more then this idiot to create the mess we have today.



http://www.knife-party.net/movs/barry.mov

First I think this is an overly simplistic unfactual account built by intelligent hands with fingers firmly positioned on the dazzle button. That video was built for those that do not have the capacity or ability to look up and study historical facts. I mean really, no bombs have dropped on America??? Of course they have, remember 9-11-01? The thing is, a good chunk of Americans do not wish to see the United States devolve into a war zone like Europe(remember WWI and WWII?) So we have taken pre emptive action against the Hitler of our time i.e. Radical Islam.
I personally do not believe that we can solve the potential crisis until the USA decides to forgoe our pention for overdose consumption of non renewable energy. But that said, this war against terrorism (i.e. radical islam) has been brewing on the horizen long before Georgie got into office. Bin Laden attacked the US and our interests quite a few times during the 90's, it's just a matter of fact that Bill Clinton did nothing to stop it or retaliate. I feel he could and should have clipped OBL's wings in the early to mid 90's and we would not have had 9-11. As far as Iraq goes, the jury is still out. It is too soon to know if Iraq will prosper or if Iraq will fall victim to complete chaos. What we do know is that Saddam is sitting in a prison on trial for war crimes against humanity and that his evil sons are dead. Those are positives in my book, no matter which way you slice it. I wish that someone would have gone in and taken out Hitler before WWII and the concentration camps, but that did not happen and 6 million Jews were murdered in gas chambers. Because of this do I believe in preemptive action? Yes I do. Try telling the surviving families of the holocost that preemptive stikes only cause more hate and anger. The hate and anger already exists, period. You have to kill it violently or else it will kill you violently. Should Bill Clinton have taken the "political" risk and captured or killed Bin Laden in the late 90's, despite the blowback of the "Arab street"? Any American that has lost a friend or family member in the World Trade Center can quickly answer question that without hesitation.

[AdamJay]

while i agree with some of what you said, and i think many in this thread do as well, but some of us have differing opinions on the nuances... OBL wouldn't have had "wings" in the first place had our nation (with the thanks of Donal Rumsfeld at the time no less) gave weapons to OBL to fight the Soviets in the 80's. The way i see it, Republicans can't function on the executive level unless we are at war some how and in some way. (cold war anyone?). The interesting parallel there is that neither can Totalitarian governments, Conflict = Control. and this is why i don't beleive in preemptive war, or any other form of war for that matter.

[Fernando Carvalho]

Hey, sps1, I think you are talking about a rambo movie, not the real world. Every kid in america should read 1984. Much smarter than the bible.

"War agains terror" What a shitty movie man.

[FaX-01]

What's with this War against "Terror" !



Which pronoun will western civilisation target next ?




Tune in next week when cultural overload wages a war on the Complete back catalog of the Oxford Concise English Dictionary.










My advice is this .

Every woman in America needs to shave her pubic hair .
Then the millions of fur free muff burgers can march on down to Washington knickerless and in skirts.
Stand on the white house lawn in their millions with skirts pulled up over their heads........


AND CHANT REALLY LOUDLY - "READ MY LIPS - NO MORE BUSH"


now that's what I call a civil rights anti Bush protest .............
Maybe the dumb c#nt would get the hint by then

[hoffman2k]

It's these kind of FACTS that make up my view on the state of the world.
people give bush way too much credit, you need more then this idiot to create the mess we have today.



http://www.knife-party.net/movs/barry.mov

First I think this is an overly simplistic unfactual account built by intelligent hands with fingers firmly positioned on the dazzle button. That video was built for those that do not have the capacity or ability to look up and study historical facts. I mean really, no bombs have dropped on America??? Of course they have, remember 9-11-01? The thing is, a good chunk of Americans do not wish to see the United States devolve into a war zone like Europe(remember WWI and WWII?)

first off, what you consider unfactual depends on what facts you know.
I believe that the bombs dropped on america may not be attacks. But rather distractions.

I agree that stuff like this video clip or micheal moore documentary's put alot of emphasis on the corporatism and smear it way thick.
But they dont make it up. it's not based on a novel.
It's reality.
And i really think alot of more people need to view it on the corporate side, rather then the political views shuved into your brain by tv networks like cnn.

Take pearl harbor as a corporate example.
They made more money on the movie then they had lost on the actual attack.

I dont get the same cnn Americans get. But recently there was a show called "crossfire" on it
They had Jon stuart as a guest. (from the daily show on comedy central, a show that says george bush is an idiot on daily basis)
He used his time on cnn to beg the hosts to stop telling bullshit to the american people. And use their power to show whats really going on.
By now you will find this video anywhere on the net if you want to see it.

You can look at it anyway you want. But more people in the media are revolting because they can. It's not that easy for people who arent famous.
But the way stuff is going you can see the masses growing.
Some people just wont accept it. You know why?
Tv has made them choose what to believe.

You say alot of people do not wish to see america end up like a battleground.
What a fucking hypocritical thing to say. I bet alot of people did not wish to see vietnam, iraq, afghanistan,.... (long list) end up in battlegrounds.
Face it, even their own city's are warzone's.

[forge]

It's these kind of FACTS that make up my view on the state of the world.
people give bush way too much credit, you need more then this idiot to create the mess we have today.



http://www.knife-party.net/movs/barry.mov

First I think this is an overly simplistic unfactual account built by intelligent hands with fingers firmly positioned on the dazzle button. That video was built for those that do not have the capacity or ability to look up and study historical facts. I mean really, no bombs have dropped on America??? Of course they have, remember 9-11-01? The thing is, a good chunk of Americans do not wish to see the United States devolve into a war zone like Europe(remember WWI and WWII?) So we have taken pre emptive action against the Hitler of our time i.e. Radical Islam.
I personally do not believe that we can solve the potential crisis until the USA decides to forgoe our pention for overdose consumption of non renewable energy. But that said, this war against terrorism (i.e. radical islam) has been brewing on the horizen long before Georgie got into office. Bin Laden attacked the US and our interests quite a few times during the 90's, it's just a matter of fact that Bill Clinton did nothing to stop it or retaliate. I feel he could and should have clipped OBL's wings in the early to mid 90's and we would not have had 9-11. As far as Iraq goes, the jury is still out. It is too soon to know if Iraq will prosper or if Iraq will fall victim to complete chaos. What we do know is that Saddam is sitting in a prison on trial for war crimes against humanity and that his evil sons are dead. Those are positives in my book, no matter which way you slice it. I wish that someone would have gone in and taken out Hitler before WWII and the concentration camps, but that did not happen and 6 million Jews were murdered in gas chambers. Because of this do I believe in preemptive action? Yes I do. Try telling the surviving families of the holocost that preemptive stikes only cause more hate and anger. The hate and anger already exists, period. You have to kill it violently or else it will kill you violently. Should Bill Clinton have taken the "political" risk and captured or killed Bin Laden in the late 90's, despite the blowback of the "Arab street"? Any American that has lost a friend or family member in the World Trade Center can quickly answer question that without hesitation.

First: To compare Iraq to 1930s Germany is absurd - When Saddam invaded Kuwait in 1990 he was quashed within a few days while Germany by 1939 was terrifyingly powerful and militarily superior to Britain in just about every way. After the first war nearly bankrupted the UK, the empire started disolving and Hitler mobilised Germany and started arming again - which Churchill warned everybody years before but got ignored - and got them working and achieving alot.

What you have suggested sounds like typical republican propaganda because there is absolutely no reality to comparing the two.

Second: What you say about the families of WTC victims might be relevant if Americans where the only people on the planet that mattered, but it's kind of nullified by the sheer number of 'foreigners' lives that have been lost at american hands in afghanistan and Iraq - (term collateral damage ring any bells - it doesn't sound as bad as civillian deaths does it? no that's because political advisors dont say things like civilian deaths)

And there'd also be a case for including in that death toll the millions who've starved to death (and still are) all over the world at the hands of western greed and unfair debts - are they less important than the Jews?

Jesus man, whatever Saddam might have done to the Kurds in the 80s pales in significance to what's going on in Africa, but who cares about that they dont got Oil?

[AdamJay]

Jon Stewart for President.

[forge]

What's with this War against "Terror" !



Which pronoun will western civilisation target next ?




Tune in next week when cultural overload wages a war on the Complete back catalog of the Oxford Concise English Dictionary.










My advice is this .

Every woman in America needs to shave her pubic hair .
Then the millions of fur free muff burgers can march on down to Washington knickerless and in skirts.
Stand on the white house lawn in their millions with skirts pulled up over their heads........


AND CHANT REALLY LOUDLY - "READ MY LIPS - NO MORE BUSH"


now that's what I call a civil rights anti Bush protest .............
Maybe the dumb c#nt would get the hint by then

now that's about the most sensible thing we've heard so far!

[Angstrom]

This is a vast topic, but there are a few points I would like to make/raise before the black helicopters come to get me.

Firtsly :
If you are in the UK there is an interesting documentary series called "Power of Nightmares" (wed BBC2) paralleling the rise and ideology of the neoconservatives with the rise of the islamic jihadists.I found it highly informative and insightful'
Here is some information about 'Power of Nightmares' for those outside our blighted isles.
The basic ideology outlined by Strauss (the original neoconservative), is to combat the Rights based liberalism which seemed to be dividing the USA in the 60s by re-unifying society with an external threat.
many highly placed ex-CIA bosses and Republican senators speak in the series about the over-riding need for a bogeyman to unify the nation. In fact it made perfect sense to me, if I was in command of many millions of disparate people with different wants and needs - all with an axe to grind, how would I unify them and save my ass?

So while I am troll baiting - I also reccomend struggling through a Noam Chomsky book or two. He brings to light many cases of USA political / monetary ..erm 'interventions' in other peoples countries which I would imagine were presented rather differently in the US via the media.

An interesting current case is Venezuela, which was widely rumoured to be the next target for 'Liberation' after the success of Iraq (kind of on hold for now then). Check out how large Venezuelas oil reserve is ladies and gentlemen, then read this exposeby Paul Stiglitz (World Bank Chief Economist from 1997-99) on the policies, practices and benefits of undermining non-US states. Truly educational.

*puts tinfoil hat back on*

[djadonis206]

I'm so glad I already voted (sent in my absentee ballot) so any and all debates mean nothing to me anymore - I've already made my decision

To the Victor, the spoils

part 1