Obama wins, Dems will crush the weak-ass republicans cuz...

[Grifter]

Obama and McCain's energy is the same? no they're not. Obama basically wants to make oil based fuels more expensive to fund new alternatives. McCain wants to drill.

Buffalo Bill put them pipes in Georgia so its god damn time his compatriots grow some balls and kick some ass in the name of freedom.

This sentence will be available as a text file soon for all those looking for inspirational speech soon.

[knotkranky]

so in other words McCain for pres.

Thank you

McKinney and Moore will have a better chance a little later on if Obama wins. He needs the votes. We need the votes. Vote Obama fellas...... please

wow.
you 'strategic' voters are the biggest faggots in the history of the world.
Reading your posts and pathetic pleas to vote Obama make me wretch.

b0unce, lm, deva,

Fuck right it's strategic. Obama is doing the same fucking thing in working the system trying to edge out McBush for the same reasons. Yeah yeah yeah, the system is fucked, always has been and to degrees will always be. You'll never run out of bitching on that. Power is power.

Simple enough; hand it to McCain and get more of the same is no jokey slogan. Ain't it been great?

Vote for Obama and take it away from the last 8 year crew and head in a direction that is more inclusive. Sure the dems are keeping your picks out, they don't want you to grab votes away from them. There's plenty of that between smaller parties too. The electoral system sucks but yes, you gotta work it bitches.

Go ahead, vote on principle. I like your picks a lot but i also like them enough to pick a candidate or keep one out that'll give those admittedly good choices a better leg up in the future. Play the odds in that direction, place a few good bets and play your big hand when you get some nice cards.

You don't think putting a black man in office is good for your candidates? Break that one down and better stuff is yet to come.

[Grifter]

Thank you

McKinney and Moore will have a better chance a little later on if Obama wins. He needs the votes. We need the votes. Vote Obama fellas...... please

wow.
you 'strategic' voters are the biggest faggots in the history of the world.
Reading your posts and pathetic pleas to vote Obama make me wretch.

b0unce, lm, deva,

Fuck right it's strategic. Obama is doing the same fucking thing in working the system trying to edge out McBush for the same reasons. Yeah yeah yeah, the system is fucked, always has been and to degrees will always be. You'll never run out of bitching on that. Power is power.

Simple enough; hand it to McCain and get more of the same is no jokey slogan. Ain't it been great?

Vote for Obama and take it away from the last 8 year crew and head in a direction that is more inclusive. Sure the dems are keeping your picks out, they don't want you to grab votes away from them. There's plenty of that between smaller parties too. The electoral system sucks but yes, you gotta work it bitches.

Go ahead, vote on principle. I like your picks a lot but i also like them enough to pick a candidate or keep one out that'll give those admittedly good choices a better leg up in the future. Play the odds in that direction, place a few good bets and play your big hand when you get some nice cards.

You don't think putting a black man in office is good for your candidates? Break that one down and better stuff is yet to come.

Same shit same bucket, how would you like it served?

[Tone Deft]

vote KK in '16.

well put, I'm glad you chime in on this stuff.


still no word from nebulae or Adonis...

[knotkranky]

@ Grifter - Ok, but inaction and ineffectual bitching serves a bigger bucket of shite.





Cheers Tone, my best chance of getting there is Obama 08'

[Grifter]

[quote="knotkranky"]@ Grifter - Ok, but inaction and ineffectual bitching serves a bigger bucket of shite.


Your vote still only serves a two party system which works in unison

[knotkranky]

@ Grifter - Ok, but inaction and ineffectual bitching serves a bigger bucket of shite.


Your vote still only serves a two party system which works in unison

Your non vote still serves the worst of the two.

[Grifter]

@ Grifter - Ok, but inaction and ineffectual bitching serves a bigger bucket of shite.


Your vote still only serves a two party system which works in unison

Your non vote still serves the worst of the two.

Well you washed any hope down the drain.

"The Russians are coming" is a comment you may need to get used to

[deva]

Obama does not mean change at all. He is EXACTLY business as usual

loss of all cred.

How is he different?

Look at his foreign policy advisers. Look at his economic advisers. All long term Washington insiders pushing exactly the same agenda as over the past few decades.

Obama takes lots of money from political lobbies. He is beholden to corporate power and in his voting record has shown it.

He buys into the whole 'war on terrorism' bullshit. He passes on the same lies about Iran as the current administration.

Obama, in a speech to the Cuban American Foundation (a right wing group), promised to maintain the 50 year old embargo of Cuba. He also called Venezuelan President Chavez a danger to the region. (It has been the USA which is the real danger).

Obama also supports the Merida Iniative... a highly regressive program signed into law by Bush which is along the lines of Plan Colombia and which will militarize Mexico, tie Mexico to the US 'counter-terrorism' strategy and is predicted to reduce Mexican civil liberties (along the lines of what we are facing here). It makes the US the arbiter over Mexican law as related to 'narco-terrorism'.

Obama is an imperialist and will support the US empire. That is not change...

Finally, it is really incumbent upon you to articulate why, with much evidence to the contrary, we should expect some sort of change. Just saying I have lost cred and offering no specifics has no meaning when I am the one presenting information to back up my conclusion.

Go ahead and refute the information in this post. Let us go over Obama's foreign policy and economic policy advisers and their long track record of business as usual. There is a lot more information than what I have outlined here.

And to make this clear, by presenting information which in my estimation provides an accurate picture of Obama rather than the rosy colored one so many progressives cling to, I am not advocating for McCain, saying don't vote for Obama, etc.

Too many progressives are giving Obama the benefit of the doubt and his feet need to be held to the fire. Clinging to fanciful images of 'hope' and 'change' which are not based in actual deeds makes no political sense.

[deva]

b0unce, lm, deva,

Fuck right it's strategic. Obama is doing the same fucking thing in working the system trying to edge out McBush for the same reasons. Yeah yeah yeah, the system is fucked, always has been and to degrees will always be. You'll never run out of bitching on that. Power is power.

Simple enough; hand it to McCain and get more of the same is no jokey slogan. Ain't it been great?

Vote for Obama and take it away from the last 8 year crew and head in a direction that is more inclusive. Sure the dems are keeping your picks out, they don't want you to grab votes away from them. There's plenty of that between smaller parties too. The electoral system sucks but yes, you gotta work it bitches.

Go ahead, vote on principle. I like your picks a lot but i also like them enough to pick a candidate or keep one out that'll give those admittedly good choices a better leg up in the future. Play the odds in that direction, place a few good bets and play your big hand when you get some nice cards.

You don't think putting a black man in office is good for your candidates? Break that one down and better stuff is yet to come.

I have not argued at all that you should not vote for Obama. What I have done is present information about him because I hear way to much expectation for an Obama Presidency.

Clinton was a disaster of a President. Clinton also lied us into a war in Yugoslavia. Clinton gutted welfare, and pushed NAFTA through. Clinton passed numerous legislations on 'security' which helped lay the foundation for Bush to take even more authoritarian steps. It was Clinton who signed into law the basis for violating the 4th Amendment at protests such as the recent ones at the RNC.

Things are going to get worse under Obama. Maybe not worse as fast as under McCain, but Obama does not represent a new direction. With Obama, we will still move in the same direction as we are moving now.

Under Obama, our civil liberties will continue to erode.

There is no easy escape from what we have allowed to happen, but that is what people are looking for and that is why they are susceptible to the hype about 'hope' and 'change'.

[Tone Deft]

deva - lots of points. thanks for the lack of namecalling and stuff.

not a lot of time ATM but in general I'd reply to you talking about how all the candidates are shady politicians. a similar line of thinking to yours IMO is that the whole thing is corrupt and wrong so don't vote.

I'd probably also want to contrast the statements you made about Obama to McCain, his staff, his voting record, his similarities to Bush.

policy advisors - the only one I've clued into is Bryzinski (sp?)who was a great pick, did a lot of good things under Carter. yes, he's been around a long time.

look at McCain's advisors, most of them are former lobbyists, there are sites that lay this out, it's pretty egregious.

he does not buy into the war on terrorism, please back that up. he has voted for more money for Iraq and has stated basically that he supports the troops, not the war.

Cuba - I could give a fuck really. he has stated that he will make it easier for Cubans to get to the US but he does not support the government. I already talked Cuba with you.

I'd also look into him still supporting an embargo, I don't know. I wouldn't care if he did. let the people get out if they want but the Cuban government is fucked up.

Obama is an imperialist... lmfao, you really don't like the guy. that's such an overblown statement. the US is an imperialist country, that's a fact, it's not going to change.

why some sort of change?? omfg Bush has been in for 8 years, voting Democrat will put new people in charge. also, the evidence of Bush's crimes will still be hot, if the GOP gets in, that evidence will cool off and vanish. I can't take you seriously on this point, you're either really uninformed or really pissed off.

economics - Obama will tax people who make over $250k, McCain will tax the middle class and give cuts to the very wealthy. fuck that.

getting tired of your progressive flag waving TBH. you're quite negative against Obama. talk about McCain for a change, shed some light on that situation. how would voting for McCain be a good thing?

if I get grumpy it's because 4 years of McCain scares me, I can't fathom why anyone would vote for him, unless they're religious and aren't allowed to think for themselves.

I don't kid myself either, every president does shitty things, you have to be a sleezeball to go into politics to begin with. the US in general does really shitty things as well, it's not like it'll be ice cream Tuesdays and free strip club Thursdays if Obama gets in. I like his stances, I really truly dislike McCain.


lemme hear you talk McCain.

[ethios4]

I feel quite sad that Obama and McCain are neck and neck right now. The dick in my ass right now sure feels a lot like Karl Rove's.

[forge]

Obama does not mean change at all. He is EXACTLY business as usual

loss of all cred.

How is he different?

Look at his foreign policy advisers. Look at his economic advisers. All long term Washington insiders pushing exactly the same agenda as over the past few decades.

Obama takes lots of money from political lobbies. He is beholden to corporate power and in his voting record has shown it.

He buys into the whole 'war on terrorism' bullshit. He passes on the same lies about Iran as the current administration.

Obama, in a speech to the Cuban American Foundation (a right wing group), promised to maintain the 50 year old embargo of Cuba. He also called Venezuelan President Chavez a danger to the region. (It has been the USA which is the real danger).

Obama also supports the Merida Iniative... a highly regressive program signed into law by Bush which is along the lines of Plan Colombia and which will militarize Mexico, tie Mexico to the US 'counter-terrorism' strategy and is predicted to reduce Mexican civil liberties (along the lines of what we are facing here). It makes the US the arbiter over Mexican law as related to 'narco-terrorism'.

Obama is an imperialist and will support the US empire. That is not change...

Finally, it is really incumbent upon you to articulate why, with much evidence to the contrary, we should expect some sort of change. Just saying I have lost cred and offering no specifics has no meaning when I am the one presenting information to back up my conclusion.

Go ahead and refute the information in this post. Let us go over Obama's foreign policy and economic policy advisers and their long track record of business as usual. There is a lot more information than what I have outlined here.

And to make this clear, by presenting information which in my estimation provides an accurate picture of Obama rather than the rosy colored one so many progressives cling to, I am not advocating for McCain, saying don't vote for Obama, etc.

Too many progressives are giving Obama the benefit of the doubt and his feet need to be held to the fire. Clinging to fanciful images of 'hope' and 'change' which are not based in actual deeds makes no political sense.

deva - I very much respect your take on this, but you are an idealist living in a cyncial, distorted fucked up reality, a big part of which is you really can't do very much at all about it, unless you become very rich or go into politics/head a corporation, preferably all 3.

One of the fewe little things you can do however is vote, and the reality is that you WILL have either McCain or Obama for president, and despite Obama maybe being only slightly better than McCain, but going by recent history, Clinton was better than Bush and I think Obama will be better than McCain

But the biggest point of all is please dear god spare the world from Palin as president. McCain is 72. If you have to lay back and take one for the team just to ensure that insular narrow minded simpleton doesn't end up president then that's just what ya gotta do.

[deva]

But the biggest point of all is please dear god spare the world from Palin as president. McCain is 72. If you have to lay back and take one for the team just to ensure that insular narrow minded simpleton doesn't end up president then that's just what ya gotta do.

Ha! Thankfully I am spared that decision since I live in Oregon which will be an easy Obama win. Multnomah County (Portland) will vote 70+% for Obama.

[doc holiday]

i think biden was a bad choice for obama


hey forge did you check out this thread yet?

good reads for you in there:

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... highlight=


not that it's likely you would miss something around here.