knotkranky wrote:
knotkranky wrote:
I can't stand Rice, Keyes, Powell,Thomas. But, Obama being black is certainly an enormous bonus and a message of solidarity I believe will graduate America up and away from its racism.
MW:
Huh? So because the other black people in power positions aren't on your side, you ignore any 'graduating' their blackness accomplished?? Wow? That's racism and political bias spun around so many times I'm dizzy!
Good god MW. You're being a jerk and purposefully divisive. You have this habit of reciprocating with contradiction because you believe there's a crack to exploit. You are simply being argumentative to fulfill god knows what. You're excluding all that i've said in my posts and other political threads. If you don't get me at this point there's nothing I can do. You know me better than that but you respond to me otherwise.
I'll try to answer it anyway. I don't like those people because they are right-wing warmongering judicial jerk-offs. Please bro. I don't converse to mine disagreement, I converse to find agreement. Knock it off with the racist double standard bullshit calling.
Gotta disagree on this one, and no, I'm not doing it to just be divisive etc. You stated flatly that Obama being black was a message of solidarity, but when that message comes from the other side of the political fence, you can't bring yourself to admit that Rice, Powell, and Clarence Thomas mean something at all. So only black democrats can unite people, black republicans are meaningless?
I'm failing to see any cohesiveness to your view, sorry.
Here's what I get, being black is only important if you're a democrat, republicans are all the same, only a black democrat can unite people.
I'm trying hard not to see a double standard here?
KK:
Also the middle eastern moderates would like to see the U.S. keep a presence so they can forward their progressive agenda and they are important to me.
MW:
Holy fuck???? are you serious?? Do you really believe that the people on our 'side' are moderates?? Look at it this way....
McCain gets elected, Russia comes in and bombs the shit out of the USA, eliminates the death penalty and our military presence in the world, straightens up our 'freedoms', instals public works programs etc. but still uses squads of soldiers to root out enemies of the state. these people disappear, and just for shits and giggles photos of them come back naked and humiliated etc. What word would you give to describe the people who backed and supported Russia?
I sure as fuck wouldn't call them moderates. Opportunists maybe.
Basically you drank the kool aid.
Agreed, considering your scenario, I wouldn't call them moderates either.
Ok, aside from the sectarian and tribal entities, the middle east is divided into two groups if I may be simplistic. Religious extremists and progressive moderates. Progressives being their doctors, scientists, teachers, musicians, film makers etc. are being kidnapped or murdered at an alarming rate. Many of those progressive moderates are usually educated in western schools. They obviously need protection and those governments know that they need more doctors and scientist that can come to their countries without fear of death. Most of the middle east are jean wearing, movie going, pop music loving peeps. Although you wouldn't be able to tell from media coverage, but it's true. We should help the people that want to progress in adding to the world their knowledge of art, science and medicine etc. Not with war, but with education, infrastructure and protection from religious extremists. Of course they don't want our war, but they do want our help.
Hey, did you ever stop to think that people have a right to be fundamentalist? Did it ever occur to you that maybe a majority in the middle east don't want american influence? politically, culturally, financially and most of all physically, as in military presence?
Iran is a great example, I've met quite a few persians, and they all say the same thing, (remember, these are people who moved to the states, not extremists etc.), that americans have this view of Iran as a totalitarian state, and in reality, people live much the same as we do here.
They also disagree with the Iran government, but feel that since the majority of people in Iran are happy with it, it's their right! They feel that it's madly hypocritical that the USA is talking about bombing Iran if they have 'evidence' of nuclear facilities, considering this country is the only country to have actually used the A-bomb.
I agree it's sticky for doctors and such, and there should be LOCAL government protection for sure. Our presence as an occupying force,( leave no doubt in your mind, that's what we are ), is DIVISIVE.
Also, it doesn't matter when we leave, now or 20 years from now, whatever government is in power when we do will be in deep shit. We are an occupying army, there is no real liberation in 22 year old kids heading intelligence operations that put people away for years/indefinitely. Think of the amount of subterfuge being generated in this situation? If you haven't seen Gunner Palace, it's a great place to start on this. The Iraqi that was finding "terrorists" for us halfway through the movie turns out to be a mole.
Think about how silly this is, we have no idea what we're fighting, it's random buzz words like Al Queda and extremists..... so anybody deeply muslim would be scared shitless in this case.... blah.
I like what personality comes through in your posts knotkranky, but your take on the middle east is filled with colonial thinking.....
We should help the people that want to progress in adding to the world their knowledge of art, science and medicine etc. Not with war, but with education, infrastructure and protection from religious extremists. Of course they don't want our war, but they do want our help.
In there it's still apparent that you see your culture as superior, and theirs as in need of our help. This isn't an easy thing to look at, but this is how people have been talked into conquest for millennia. "There's a few people in X country that want our liberation!" ... If you can look into this and realize the inherent colonialism, then maybe you can understand why Obama and the democrats are just slightly watered down versions of the same agenda the republicans are spitting out.
Look into the history of the middle east, look into the reasons why terrorists exist in the first place, and it's a consistent story. The west has manipulated their governments for hundreds of years, with the recent need for oil creating more intense involvement. Nothing we do in Iraq will ever be seen by the common people there as for their benefit, because quite simply it's not, it's just sold to you as such.
