Hi,
Sort of a newb here. I've been playing around with live 7, and I've been trying to get some hard noisey drums (stuff like terrorfakt, hypnoskull, imminent starvation) with the audio effects in live.
I've tried the tube (sorry, forget the name - i'm at the office), saturator, grain delay, etc. It all seems to end up sounding like muddy crap, though.
I've read some stuff about layering drums as well. Is that something I can do with the drum kits? Should I be using sampled drums (if so, what kind - like acoustic drum kits?)? Can I do this with the included effects, or should I be using an external distortion plug in?
Thanks in advance!
power noise in live?
layering works great, or use distortion FX on a send to get a mix of wet + dry.
Also, if you save a dry version of the drums you can use them as a side-chain input on Compressor, to mold some shape back into the distorted drum track and have it be less "static", more "punchy" but with all the flavor of the good distortion.
Mess with the waveshaper inside the tube sim.
I use many third party distortion plugs, tho, for my noisy bits.
Also, if you save a dry version of the drums you can use them as a side-chain input on Compressor, to mold some shape back into the distorted drum track and have it be less "static", more "punchy" but with all the flavor of the good distortion.
Mess with the waveshaper inside the tube sim.
I use many third party distortion plugs, tho, for my noisy bits.
hi laird,
thanks!
about layering - what would be the best way to do that? do i do that in simpler, or do i just trigger a few notes at the same time (say in two pads in a drum kit or in impulse) with the same sample, and one is distorted and the other isn't?
i'll have a look around for some freebee mac distortion plugins, too.
thanks!
about layering - what would be the best way to do that? do i do that in simpler, or do i just trigger a few notes at the same time (say in two pads in a drum kit or in impulse) with the same sample, and one is distorted and the other isn't?
i'll have a look around for some freebee mac distortion plugins, too.
Power noise (or rather, rhythmic noise because that's a much better descriptive term) can be made in various ways with different tools. The good thing about Live is that you can combine all of them for fun, but probably not profit because there's no money in making it
You will want to check out as many different free and commercial distortion, delay and reverb plugins as you can, because in order to get a properly monumental, fucked up sound you're going to be layering effects like a madman. Distortions, overdrives, tube amp simulators (say hello to the IK Amplitube, it is a good friend), saturators and such are a good place to start, but consider for example wrecking synth sounds with feedback-capable delays like the ArcDev DubBox (available for free here: http://www.producer-central.com/blog_gr ... lugins.htm), adding some crunchy distortion, recording the howling mess of a sound that results and manipulating the recorded sample's pitch to make string sounds that'll creep out the dancefloor in an instant.
If you've listened to a lot of rhythmic noise you'll probably have noticed there's a world of difference in the sound of bands such as Hypnoskull or Imminent, who are laptop-based and Synapscape or Converter who are not. What do the two latter bands do then, if not participate in plugin orgies? They use actual distortion boxes originally meant for guitars. Grab a few cheap ones from eBay (such as the DOD Death Metal or Grunge), run your sounds through them and record them back into your DAW for processing (just don't hook the cables straight out of the boxes into your audio interface without a mixer or something like that in between, you'll probably damage your preamps). You'll quickly notice that the cheap boxes bastardise the sound in ways that plugins won't, because the boxes are unreliable, prone to changes in the sound and capable of a lot of variation depending on which order they're chained in.
There's a ton of techniques you can use, but pretty much throw out every approach you've previously had to making sounds and consider them as noises instead. Instead of avoiding redlining the mixer, go for it. Feedback? Yes please, the more the better. Hell, even compression and low-bitrate MP3 artifacts are fair game here. Why not get a cheap-ass contact microphone from Radio Shack, hook it to equally cheap distortion boxes, tape the mic on some durable but expendable object, then kick it around a bit for metallic beat madness? Anything goes.
Whatever you do, please remeber this: if the end result sounds more like techno with a bit of distortion (Xotox and other no-talent people that sound like that) and less like a factory assembly line set to music, it didn't come out right
You will want to check out as many different free and commercial distortion, delay and reverb plugins as you can, because in order to get a properly monumental, fucked up sound you're going to be layering effects like a madman. Distortions, overdrives, tube amp simulators (say hello to the IK Amplitube, it is a good friend), saturators and such are a good place to start, but consider for example wrecking synth sounds with feedback-capable delays like the ArcDev DubBox (available for free here: http://www.producer-central.com/blog_gr ... lugins.htm), adding some crunchy distortion, recording the howling mess of a sound that results and manipulating the recorded sample's pitch to make string sounds that'll creep out the dancefloor in an instant.
If you've listened to a lot of rhythmic noise you'll probably have noticed there's a world of difference in the sound of bands such as Hypnoskull or Imminent, who are laptop-based and Synapscape or Converter who are not. What do the two latter bands do then, if not participate in plugin orgies? They use actual distortion boxes originally meant for guitars. Grab a few cheap ones from eBay (such as the DOD Death Metal or Grunge), run your sounds through them and record them back into your DAW for processing (just don't hook the cables straight out of the boxes into your audio interface without a mixer or something like that in between, you'll probably damage your preamps). You'll quickly notice that the cheap boxes bastardise the sound in ways that plugins won't, because the boxes are unreliable, prone to changes in the sound and capable of a lot of variation depending on which order they're chained in.
There's a ton of techniques you can use, but pretty much throw out every approach you've previously had to making sounds and consider them as noises instead. Instead of avoiding redlining the mixer, go for it. Feedback? Yes please, the more the better. Hell, even compression and low-bitrate MP3 artifacts are fair game here. Why not get a cheap-ass contact microphone from Radio Shack, hook it to equally cheap distortion boxes, tape the mic on some durable but expendable object, then kick it around a bit for metallic beat madness? Anything goes.
Whatever you do, please remeber this: if the end result sounds more like techno with a bit of distortion (Xotox and other no-talent people that sound like that) and less like a factory assembly line set to music, it didn't come out right
kraze: cool, thanks. i'll take a look.
flower: thanks for the great reply! lots of great tips there that i probably wouldn't have thought of otherwise. i'll definitely do my best to wreak havoc on things and see what sounds they make.
right now i'm sort of starting out, so i'll probably get started with the plugin orgies, and then see where i go from there.
thanks.
flower: thanks for the great reply! lots of great tips there that i probably wouldn't have thought of otherwise. i'll definitely do my best to wreak havoc on things and see what sounds they make.
right now i'm sort of starting out, so i'll probably get started with the plugin orgies, and then see where i go from there.
thanks.
Definitely agree that it all about distortion (well that and EQ and compression ). Personally I've done some leftfield loops for a sample collection called Abstract Percussion in which one of the things I found useful was actually amping up a really old Marshall stack in weird feedbacky kinds of ways and then recording them with my Olympus LS10 (I've got a collection of about 500 squeals drone and amp hums etc) I now use these hums and feedback in layers and with filters to get some very odd times and to layer over more mainstream electronica noises to give them some "real" sounding grit as opposed to just using the same distortion plug ins as everybody else.
). Personally I've done some leftfield loops for a sample collection called Abstract Percussion in which one of the things I found useful was actually amping up a really old Marshall stack in weird feedbacky kinds of ways and then recording them with my Olympus LS10 (I've got a collection of about 500 squeals drone and amp hums etc) I now use these hums and feedback in layers and with filters to get some very odd times and to layer over more mainstream electronica noises to give them some "real" sounding grit as opposed to just using the same distortion plug ins as everybody else.http://TechnoMusicNews.com/ - Techno news & mixes
Send me a decent techno or minimal mix and I guarantee a decent number of listens.
Send me a decent techno or minimal mix and I guarantee a decent number of listens.
Bit chrusher rockz
But if you wan't to use guitar pedals (like flower suggested/talked about), the I recommend u get a devi ever fuzz pedal.
For example this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABDbYF8o-sA
But if you wan't to use guitar pedals (like flower suggested/talked about), the I recommend u get a devi ever fuzz pedal.
For example this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABDbYF8o-sA
- Well... but no!
Seconding Devi Ever pedals, all of them are fukken sweet and definitely worth the higher price tag than basic Boss or DOD ones.duckpow wrote:Bit chrusher rockz
But if you wan't to use guitar pedals (like flower suggested/talked about), the I recommend u get a devi ever fuzz pedal.
For example this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABDbYF8o-sA
AR-BIT 4 lyfe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOQKOLNF ... re=related
also Catalinbread Hyper Pak
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iemlEecQvYY
that is seriously fat sound coming from a tiny box
Layering can be this simple:
1. make a drum track
2. copy it
3. distort one of them.
the reason for doing something like this is that drums tend to sound like drums because they are punchy, and have dynamics.
Distortion, on the other hand, tends to flatten everything out. Sometimes the best sound will come at the expense of making your drum hits actually sound quieter than the parts that were silent before you ran your track thru the distortion pedal, and you may not like that.
So, layering some of the punchiness back in can help. you dont have to hear the clean drums, so much as feel them a bit.
Side-chain compression can also help make lovely distorted drums sound more percussive. The wiki has several fine tutorials on this subject.
As for tools, nothing beats the feel of a real live guitar pedal.
But there are many good VSTs, too, some of them free. I dont know about .au's, I'm sure there are good ones of those, too... which do you need?
1. make a drum track
2. copy it
3. distort one of them.
the reason for doing something like this is that drums tend to sound like drums because they are punchy, and have dynamics.
Distortion, on the other hand, tends to flatten everything out. Sometimes the best sound will come at the expense of making your drum hits actually sound quieter than the parts that were silent before you ran your track thru the distortion pedal, and you may not like that.
So, layering some of the punchiness back in can help. you dont have to hear the clean drums, so much as feel them a bit.
Side-chain compression can also help make lovely distorted drums sound more percussive. The wiki has several fine tutorials on this subject.
As for tools, nothing beats the feel of a real live guitar pedal.
But there are many good VSTs, too, some of them free. I dont know about .au's, I'm sure there are good ones of those, too... which do you need?