OT.... 700 BILLION $$$$

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deva
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Post by deva » Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:54 pm

fatrabbit wrote:Dumb question - but where does the $700 billion come from?

And what type of billion is this? UK billions were different to US billions until about 30 years ago weren't they? Maybe that's the problem, someone's still using the old billions (one million million - 1,000,000,000,000). :D

In the long run, the $700 Billion would be paid by the tax payer (that is the idea). However, in the short run, the money would be obtained by selling treasuries to foreign investors (China, Japan etc). There is a growing question whether other countries will continue to fund our debt. China has started balking at the idea because they understand that the U.S. government itself could face bankruptcy. They are not going to continue to fund our excess when it is increasingly likely that they will lose their investment.

The U.S. acts as if it is a superpower. The US is not a superpower. The US is a financially dependent country that foreign lenders can close down at will. China could ruin the U.S. whenever it wants to. Basically all we got at this point is a huge pile of nukes. We no longer make our own goods, we give tax breaks to corporations encouraging them to send good jobs overseas. Millions of quality jobs have fled the country, replaced by jobs only in low paid domestic services, such as waitresses, bartenders, hospital orderlies, and retail clerks. The country lost 17% of its manufacturing workforce in just 5 years from 2001-2006. That trend has continued. We depend on imports for the things we used to make.

That $700 Billion is just a way for the rich to rob the country before the whole thing goes under.


(Here a billion is a thousand million and a trillion is a million million)

ethios4
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Post by ethios4 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:05 pm

deva wrote: However, in the short run, the money would be obtained by selling treasuries to foreign investors (China, Japan etc). There is a growing question whether other countries will continue to fund our debt. China has started balking at the idea because they understand that the U.S. government itself could face bankruptcy. They are not going to continue to fund our excess when it is increasingly likely that they will lose their investment.
Hmmm, and Paulson just happens to have very close ties to Chinese banking....

deva
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Post by deva » Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:20 pm

Europe and Japan on Monday turned a cold shoulder toward a U.S. request that they bail out banks in the manner now being proposed in the United States.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/09/22/ ... s/euro.php


Seems they are a bit smarter than we are here!

Huey
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Post by Huey » Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:09 pm

Bush's Plan....WTF are you talking about. Bush did not come up with the bailout plan, lawmakers did. Thats funny. The other hilarious statement, "The same administration that brought you Katrina.." Bush caused a hurricane???????? Holy shit he is powerful.
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Geezus
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Post by Geezus » Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:24 pm

Huey wrote:Bush's Plan....WTF are you talking about. Bush did not come up with the bailout plan, lawmakers did. Thats funny. The other hilarious statement, "The same administration that brought you Katrina.." Bush caused a hurricane???????? Holy shit he is powerful.
OK let me rephrase the obvious "From the same administration that brought you the RESPONSE to Katrina." idiot

And it is white house appointees that came up with the proposal (not elected lawmakers) so, yes, it is basically from the white house. learn your shit

Landwhale
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Post by Landwhale » Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:11 am

Let's stop pretending here.

The United States is in the process of transitioning into the North American Union.
You don't have to believe that, but you'll be learning to accept it sooner rather than later. It will be the final "bailout".

The *near* collapse will most likely follow shortly after the election. If it is determined that Obama will serve best as the public's Zanex bar, he'll make a nice scapegoat when things go to shit. If McCain is placed into office, it will appear as though he'll implement the North American Union at the last second before imminent doom, "saving" us like some fucking geriatric Superman.

By the way, did anyone notice the string of commercials that AIG was conveniently running right up until their failure? Most of them featured a child who was stressed out about the state of the world and the economy, but their parent(s) were strangely relaxed and worry-free. The child would ask their parent, "aren't you worried about the economy?". The parent would respond "I'm not worried, I'm with AIG." That was NOT irony.

"Prove it", you might be thinking. Yet, the writing is on the wall, quite boldly. What else do you need? To be slapped in the face with a fat stack of Amero's?

floodstrand
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Wallstreet and the henhouse

Post by floodstrand » Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:19 am

I have been thinking about this whole wallstreet thing today, and I must admit I am a little confused by the whole thing.

Did you ever hear about the wolf in the hen house?

This is what I think of this whole thing as it stands today.

The farmer goes to the hen house and finds that his hens are missing.

He asks the wolf "Do you know what happened to the hens?'

Wolf: "Nope"

Farmer: Well...you spent some time in here, you probably know a little something about hens. Tell you what..you help me figure out what happened the hens and I'll pay you."

Wolf: "o.k."

Farmer: "Looks like you have been having some hard times lately...tell you what, what do you need? Take what ever you need for yourself, and to help figure out whats going on with the hens..what do you think you'll need?"

Wolf: "Well..700 Billion would be a good start."

Farmer: "Alright, you get started, bill me, and let me know how it all works out."

Wolf: "No problem I'll handle it". Wolf winks at the Farmer.

Farmer: "Great". Farmer winks at Wolf.

The End

Thats the way it looks so far to me anyway.

David

fatrabbit
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Post by fatrabbit » Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:55 pm

ethios4 wrote:Paulson is on leave from Goldman Sachs, one of the largest investment banks in the world. Hmmm. And he worked under the Nixon administration, along with Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz, and Bush Sr. Hmmm..... well, it's a good thing Bush Jr is telling everyone the economy will collapse if we don't give Paulson unlimited power without review!!
That will be Michael Moore's next film?

$5,200 per US citizen is a lot of tax! I thought our government was crazy when they bailed out Northern Rock for £15 billion or whatever it was.

forge
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Post by forge » Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:11 am

fatrabbit wrote: That will be Michael Moore's next film?
.
speaking of which...

The Rich Are Staging a Coup This Morning ...a message from Michael Moore
>From Michael Moore
Friends,

Let me cut to the chase. The biggest robbery in the history of this country is taking place as you read this. Though no guns are being used, 300 million hostages are being taken. Make no mistake about it: After stealing a half trillion dollars to line the pockets of their war-profiteering backers for the past five years, after lining the pockets of their fellow oilmen to the tune of over a hundred billion dollars in just the last two years, Bush and his cronies -- who must soon vacate the White House -- are looting the U.S. Treasury of every dollar they can grab. They are swiping as much of the silverware as they can on their way out the door.

No matter what they say, no matter how many scare words they use, they are up to their old tricks of creating fear and confusion in order to make and keep themselves and the upper one percent filthy rich. Just read the first four paragraphs of the lead story in last Monday's New York Times ( http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/22/business/22lobby.html ) and you can see what the real deal is:

"Even as policy makers worked on details of a $700 billion bailout of the financial industry, Wall Street began looking for ways to profit from it.

"Financial firms were lobbying to have all manner of troubled investments covered, not just those related to mortgages.

"At the same time, investment firms were jockeying to oversee all the assets that Treasury plans to take off the books of financial institutions, a role that could earn them hundreds of millions of dollars a year in fees.

"Nobody wants to be left out of Treasury's proposal to buy up bad assets of financial institutions."

Unbelievable. Wall Street and its backers created this mess and now they are going to clean up like bandits. Even Rudy Giuliani is lobbying for his firm to be hired (and paid) to "consult" in the bailout ( http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politic ... flect.html ).

The problem is, nobody truly knows what this "collapse" is all about. Even Treasury Secretary Paulson admitted he doesn't know the exact amount that is needed (he just picked the $700 billion number out of his head!). The head of the congressional budget office said he can't figure it out nor can he explain it to anyone.

And yet, they are screeching about how the end is near! Panic! Recession! The Great Depression! Y2K! Bird flu! Killer bees! We must pass the bailout bill today!! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Falling for whom? NOTHING in this "bailout" package will lower the price of the gas you have to put in your car to get to work. NOTHING in this bill will protect you from losing your home. NOTHING in this bill will give you health insurance.

Health insurance? Mike, why are you bringing this up? What's this got to do with the Wall Street collapse?

It has everything to do with it. This so-called "collapse" was triggered by the massive defaulting and foreclosures going on with people's home mortgages. Do you know why so many Americans are losing their homes? To hear the Republicans describe it, it's because too many working class idiots were given mortgages that they really couldn't afford. Here's the truth: The number one cause of people declaring bankruptcy is because of medical bills ( http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/02/busin ... nsure.html ). Let me state this simply: If we had had universal health coverage, this mortgage "crisis" may never have happened.

This bailout's mission is to protect the obscene amount of wealth that has been accumulated in the last eight years. It's to protect the top shareholders who own and control corporate America. It's to make sure their yachts and mansions and "way of life" go uninterrupted while the rest of America suffers and struggles to pay the bills. Let the rich suffer for once. Let them pay for the bailout. We are spending 400 million dollars a day on the war in Iraq. Let them end the war immediately and save us all another half-trillion dollars!

I have to stop writing this and you have to stop reading it. They are staging a financial coup this morning in our country. They are hoping Congress will act fast before they stop to think, before we have a chance to stop them ourselves. So stop reading this and do something -- NOW! Here's what you can do immediately:

1. Call ( http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/cgi-b ... &plusfour= ) or e-mail ( http://my.barackobama.com/page/s/contact2 ) Senator Obama. Tell him he does not need to be sitting there trying to help prop up Bush and Cheney and the mess they've made. Tell him we know he has the smarts to slow this thing down and figure out what's the best route to take. Tell him the rich have to pay for whatever help is offered. Use the leverage we have now to insist on a moratorium on home foreclosures, to insist on a move to universal health coverage, and tell him that we the people need to be in charge of the economic decisions that affect our lives, not the barons of Wall Street.

2. Take to the streets. Participate in one of the hundreds of quickly-called demonstrations ( http://truemajority.wiredforchange.com/ ... lendar.jsp ) that are taking place all over the country (especially those near Wall Street and DC).

3. Call your Representative in Congress and your Senators. (click here to find their phone numbers: http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/ ). Tell them what you told Senator Obama.

When you screw up in life, there is hell to pay. Each and every one of you reading this knows that basic lesson and has paid the consequences of your actions at some point. In this great democracy, we cannot let there be one set of rules for the vast majority of hard-working citizens, and another set of rules for the elite, who, when they screw up, are handed one more gift on a silver platter. No more! Not again!

Yours,
Michael Moore
[email protected]
http://www.michaelmoore.com/

P.S. Having read further the details of this bailout bill, you need to know you are being lied to. They talk about how they will prevent golden parachutes. It says NOTHING about what these executives and fat cats will make in SALARY. According to Rep. Brad Sherman of California, these top managers will continue to receive million-dollar-a-month paychecks under this new bill. There is no direct ownership given to the American people for the money being handed over. Foreign banks and investors will be allowed to receive billion-dollar handouts. A large chunk of this $700 billion is going to be given directly to Chinese and Middle Eastern banks. There is NO guarantee of ever seeing that money again.

P.P.S. From talking to people I know in DC, they say the reason so many Dems are behind this is because Wall Street this weekend put a gun to their heads and said either turn over the $700 billion or the first thing we'll start blowing up are the pension funds and 401(k)s of your middle class constituents. The Dems are scared they may make good on their threat. But this is not the time to back down or act like the typical Democrat we have witnessed for the last eight years. The Dems handed a stolen election over to Bush. The Dems gave Bush the votes he needed to invade a sovereign country. Once they took over Congress in 2007, they refused to pull the plug on the war. And now they have been cowered into being accomplices in the crime of the century. You have to call them now ( http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/ ) and say "NO!" If we let them do this, just imagine how hard it will be to get anything good done when President Obama is in the White House.
THESE DEMOCRATS ARE ONLY AS STRONG AS THE BACKBONE WE GIVE THEM. CALL CONGRESS NOW ( http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/ ).

trash
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Post by trash » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:41 pm

your country is fucked.
get out before its too late...
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spkey
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Post by spkey » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:03 pm

Smells like more trouble to me. US Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson asked for $700 billion without giving a single plan how he's gonna rescue us and how he's gonna spend this money. This is just proving how incompetent the Bush administration always was. It also proves how we ended up with this "credit crunch"...

deva
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Post by deva » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:46 pm

trash wrote:your country is fucked.
get out before its too late...
yup, you are correct...

the country has been looted, the Bill of Rights and Constitution are in shreds, the fascists are in control, and starting Oct 1st Posse Comitatus is gone as US troops will be active on US soil. The police state is almost complete.

deva
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Post by deva » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:48 pm

spkey wrote:Smells like more trouble to me. US Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson asked for $700 billion without giving a single plan how he's gonna rescue us and how he's gonna spend this money. This is just proving how incompetent the Bush administration always was. It also proves how we ended up with this "credit crunch"...
They are not incompetent, they have successfully pulled off the biggest swindle in history!

Moody
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Post by Moody » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:49 pm

trash wrote:your country is fucked.
get out before its too late...
It is and there is nowhere to run to. The majority of the world is tied into the same banking systems. How do you think the UK would be affected by the US's failure? (again)
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Khazul
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Post by Khazul » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:55 pm

NorthernMonkey wrote: - you can't blame them for everything.
Nope - but I still think shooting them when they fail might give them a bit of focus...

Thats whats really messed up the american economy - in the old days of the president was useless - someone shot him :)
Nothing to see here - move along!

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