Should I learn REAPER??

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
jamester
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Post by jamester » Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:19 am

e.maynard wrote:Are you a windows user?

It's somewhat up to speed on Windows.
But compared to Live, or Logic it's a lean program.

For recording and doing it econo, Folks dig it.
But to answer you original question..... no. I see no advantages
As an experienced Reaper user, this makes me laugh.


To the OP: Try the demo, it won't cost you anything. If you have any questions just ask, we're very helpful over at the Reaper forum.

Reaper's workflow is the most customizeable I've ever experienced, and its recording and mixing/routing capabilities are deep. Making beats is a blast considering the customizeable metronome, input quantization, selectable midi "note" styles, on-the-fly drum mapping, midi loop preview through your drum instrument from the browser, dynamic loop slicing, drag-n-drop from the arrangement to any sampler/instrument etc...

You get the point. Try it out, makes a great lightweight companion to Live. (Oh and yes, it can run off a memory stick as well.)
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Crash
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Post by Crash » Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:54 am

If you need to perform some serious recording and mixing tasks then Live is lacking pretty quickly. So any timeline DAW is a good complement to Live including Reaper. Watch out that once you want to use Reaper professionally you need to buy the higher priced licence. You can try Reaper for as long as you like, it only displays a nag screen.

What Reaper offers, but Live does not:

1. Crossfades with Bezier curves:

http://www.cockos.com/wiki/index.php/Cr ... 'shifting'


2. Way more complete Recording options. In Live you basically only get Record Start/Stop. Here are some hints on what you get in Reaper (old stuff, so probably there is more already):

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=11887


3. Track groups/folders are only possible via Drumracks in Live. The latest versions of Reaper offer subgroups. You can also control parameters from a "slave" subgroup via the "master" parameters.

4. Live's mixer is very basic. You cannot undock it, you cannot rearrange it unless you rearrange your tracks manually, it doesn't display RMS, it doesn't display Pan in dB, it doesn't allow several track faders to be marked and controlled together (like dragging down more than one fader), it doesn't offer any sorting options.

Reaper does all of this.

5. For Geeks like me Reaper offers a plethora of options to get the most out of your Rig.

6. Reaper is probably the only DAW that allows you to load external plugins when being used as a Rewire Slave. That means you can rewire Reaper to Live while using plugins in Reaper. According to Ableton that's against the Rewire standard, but who gives a?

One reason why you might want to do that is that Live shows some restrictions with using/routing Multi-Output plugins (anything with more mono outputs and/or more outputs than 16 stereo-paris). Reaper has no restrictions here and offers advanced routing options for plugin outputs.


There's more and there are things that you get in Live that you wont find in Reaper or any other DAW. So once again, if you need a tool for serious recording and mixing then complementing Live with another DAW like Reaper is a good thing.

Sibanger
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Post by Sibanger » Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:59 am

Is the midi timing stable in reaper? :roll:

Crash
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Post by Crash » Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:09 am

With Midi Clock you can make the tempo vary by pushing the engine towards the limits, just like with Live and probably all other DAWs (the Midi and Audio threads run at the same highest priority).

But just like with Live it depends solely on your destination/receiving hardware to properly interpret the Midi Clock ticks. Instead of going out of sync the receiving hardware/software should vary its tempo as well and thus stay in sync.

adventurepants_
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Post by adventurepants_ » Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:16 am

Crash wrote:With Midi Clock you can make the tempo vary by pushing the engine towards the limits, just like with Live and probably all other DAWs (the Midi and Audio threads run at the same highest priority).

But just like with Live it depends solely on your destination/receiving hardware to properly interpret the Midi Clock ticks. Instead of going out of sync the receiving hardware/software should vary its tempo as well and thus stay in sync.
midi clock works better for me than Live using the same hardware. Its been well established that Lives clock drifts all over the place, wether under load or not.
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starving student
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Post by starving student » Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:54 am

what is on the fly drum mapping

Nokatus
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Post by Nokatus » Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:50 pm

e.maynard wrote:It's a bargain to be sure.
But - You get what you pay for.
These days, considering software, this is not such a trustworthy guideline. There's tons of low-cost (or free) software out there which really delivers. I'm speaking more generally here, not just audio related stuff.

Reaper offers some magnificent bang for the buck for sure. Crash already posted some key details, and I'd just like to add a general remark: Reaper fits the "tweaker" mindset in an inspiring way, much the same way Live does - but it offers you a different toolset, expanding some possibilities into directions you can't quite touch with Live. And of course, this is true the other way around, too.

They complement each other very well. Both are high quality packages and have that certain robust, highly tweakable vibe I find very inspiring :)

Edit: Ok, I have to mention one specific example: you can modulate any plugin parameter with any audio signal in an envelope follower fashion in Reaper. Expanded modulation is something people have been asking for a long time in Live. Combined with Reaper's routing capabilities, you can build some insane modulating constructs with different frequencies of a signal modulating various effect parameters of an entirely different signal, etc.

aeon
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Post by aeon » Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:11 pm

seven reasons i <3 REAPER

1. parameter modulation

use any audio control signal to modulate any parameter. with independent envelopes, threshold, knee, direction and strength settings. and dedicated LFOs.

it's like sidechain 2.0. you can use the output from a synth to modulate the chorus depth on a guitar part, or the kick to open your lead synth's filter... every single automatable parameter can be modulated this way, with independent controls for each. fancy an LFO that fucks with master stereo width, shifts the cutoff on a vocal filter, pans a guitar track and makes delay lama go 'oooaaah'?

2. if you will it, it is no dream

the rate of development is unparalleled. every few weeks there's an update; in one month we got more new features than Ableton added to Live in a year, and for *no* extra cost. the interaction between the dev team and users is incredible; basically, if you want a feature, if it makes sense and it's possible - it will probably be done.

this means that heaps of funky useful little features get implemented, some cribbed from other DAWs, some unique. the REAPER team's approach ('don't let profits and clunky upgrade schemes get in the way of development') means that interesting stuff gets done with this software... for example, you can record directly to FLAC, Ogg Vorbis, or Monkey's Audio. and the CPU performance meter is broken down by plugin, and enables you to toggle/bypass individual plugins to see where you're using your resources.

3. some *ace* plugins

there are heaps of interesting functional 'Rea-' prefixed plugins bundled with REAPER. ReaFIR is an infinite-band realtime EQ / compressor / analyser which kicks serious ass. ReaRoute allows you to send audio from one DAW to another (e.g. use Ableton Live rewired with working plugins!!!!) or from one computer to another over a network for CPU saving. everything is 64-bit, and all native plugs support multiple channels; so you can easily split and process 64 channels within each track! many of the Jesusonic plugins are primarily intended as guitar FX. but there are also some really interesting signal splitting and processing plugs - and the best thing is that they're all editable. as in you can code them from the ground up, within the REAPER environment...

the Schwa and Stillwell plugins (optimised for, and cheaper, as REAPER-only versions) are ace. Spectro and Sculpto are teh sickness.

4. routing

REAPER makes no distinction between midi and audio; you can send anything anywhere. you can freely position items over a number of tracks. the routing is just insanely flexible, and the routing matrix provides a supercool mixing environment - you can instantly see which channel is recording/sending/receiving, where from and where to; you can re-route and create new routings, and access pan/volume/tap/fader settings for each routing. fuck it, it's easier to copy from the feature spiel:

- Tracks can be viewed and used as normal tracks, or....
- Each track can function as a track and as a bus
- Each track can send to any number of other tracks (unlimited multiple parallel sends*)
- Each track can send to any number of hardware outputs (mono or stereo) for monitoring or analog mixing
- Every send can send audio and/or MIDI, audio sends can be before FX, after FX, or after the track's volume/pan faders
- Every send has its own volume/pan/phase controls
- Tracks can have as many as 64 channels, for easy support of multi-out VSTi, as well as enormous sidechain flexibility
- Feedback routing is supported


5. actions

as i understand it (i haven't had time to explore fully myself yet) you can chain infinite sequences of user macros together in context-specific keyboard shortcuts. this means you can, for example, make a 1-key shortcut so that when you hover over a media item, the item is split at the mouse position, rendered as a new take with item FX, inserted in a new track and saved. the list of actions is huge, and you can have interactive macros (e.g. reverse item, open per-item FX - pause: prompt user to insert FX - then render & lock... all with 1 keyboard shortcut). i think this is going to prove seriously useful...


6. business model

REAPER is available as an uncrippled, unlimited demo; if you use it for more than 30 days, you're supposed to register. there are two licenses, non-commercial ($40) and commercial ($200). each gets you two full increments (e.g. i bought 2.41, so i'll be licensed up to 3.99) which, given the astonishing rate of feature implementation, is an amazing deal. the best bit is that the entire thing is based on a fluid and honest system. Justin, the head of the company, has even said in interviews that if you're selling 10 copies of your album, you don't need a commercial license; if you're shifting 1000 they'd appreciate it if you bought one.

it's also still only a 3.2mb installer, and can be run from a USB flash drive. it's pretty damn fast as well; load times are minimal and it seems to be able to handle as much as i can throw at it.


7. skins

you can design your own colour themes and icons, to be distributed via the REAPER stashbox. major elements of colour themes can also be edited within REAPER, so if you *love* a skin but can't bear the meter colours, you can change them. people have done Logic, Cubase and Live inspired themes... but the best of them are just new and wonderful.

i know it's silly, but i just take a huge amount of pleasure from any DAW which lets you design or use a 'blackboard' theme:

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=23137
digitally yours

forge
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Post by forge » Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:03 pm

aeon wrote:seven reasons i <3 REAPER
that was way more than 7! :D

aeon
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Post by aeon » Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:07 pm

true, but i'm what we call 'functionally innumerate' :D
digitally yours

Crash
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Post by Crash » Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:11 pm

aeon wrote:seven reasons i <3 REAPER
Yay, thanks for the insight.

Sorry, couldn't resist:

@|3<

leedsquietman
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Post by leedsquietman » Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:31 pm

If you're making music for fun, the 50 dollar non commercial license is fair enough. It is an OK ish program with some good routing possibilities. 250 dollars is also fair if you're making music for profit, this is less than cut down versions of Cubase etc and has a similar feature set.

If you own full versions of Cubase, Logic or Sonar, I can't see you wanting to trade those in for reaper, especially on the MIDI side of things, which is still very much a Work In Progress in Reaper. It is a good program but once again, you can't compare a linear DAW to Live effectively as the whole ethos behind the programs are different. They compliment each other.

Personally I prefer Cubase and Logic as a linear DAW, they are more developed and have more of the deeper tools for audio and MIDI editing, but I think Reaper is very good for it's price and works fine for tracking, especially. It can be run on a USB drive too btw and allegedly works pretty good under emulation in Linux with Wine etc.
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Post by forge » Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:57 pm

I've found ReaRoute immensely useful - it allows me to record voice over and Live's output simultaneously into Reaper to make my videos, which I found to be a total PITA every other way I tried

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Post by nebulae » Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:41 pm

I like Reaper a lot, and I think it's a future multi-tracker powerhouse. All the 7+ reasons are valid and worthy.

But try as I want to like it, I just can't get into it anymore. I no longer think in linear fashion for song creation. Of course, I have to in order to finish a song, but my mind now works in clips and scenes. Also, the routing system of Reaper is more advanced than most other apps, but it's still HIGHLY confusing when compared to Live's simple and very elegant system of audio channel routing. For comping, grouping, bouncing, Live is easily the best out there and has been since v.4.

And once I'm doing with my experimenting and song ideas, I then go over to Live arrange, which I'll admit has a lot of limitations...native mousewheel zooming is a HUGE lack, and the inability to input exact numbers in automation points is another, as is the lack of automation curves. But there are third party tools - on PC you've got Ilia's Vitamin-L and his autohotkey script which at least takes care of the mousewheel zooming, and that alone let's me speed thru edits on the arrange page faster than I can on other apps.

So because of those reasons, I try to like other apps, but I feel most comfortable in Live. And that's why I don't bother learning other apps.

jamester
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Post by jamester » Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:03 pm

starving student wrote:what is on the fly drum mapping
Double right-click on the piano roll (which can be like Live's, either as a piano or just empty slots) to make a text box. You can make the drum map as you go - kick, snare, bleep, hat etc... And of course you can then save it for re-use later!
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