Live audio quality?

blakbeltjonez · Post by **blakbeltjonez** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:14 pm

leisuremuffin wrote:.wav files sound better than .aif.

but .aiff files sound better than both of those.

.lm.

that's because the .aiff extension has an extra bit of resolution. i know becuase i can hear it. sometimes i like to dither the trailing f.

hacktheplanet · Post by **hacktheplanet** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:15 pm

Live still sound like crap after all these years. I analyzed a 457.836hz sinoidal waveform in my Avid Tech Lab Spectral Digital Waveform Fourier Pulse Analyzer, and found that the output rendermode at 65ms at 574664dhz had a 45db discrepancy up in the 76.5mhz range. This is unacceptable for a modern digital audio work desk stereo mixing console. I'm sticking to my cassette recorder, the only viable modern real world songwriting synthprogramming professional audio production realm.

andydes · Post by **andydes** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:23 pm

sweetjesus wrote:

Oh for Christ sake, Jesus. Why necro-bump this? Isn't there enough pain and suffering in the world?

forge · Post by **forge** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:25 pm

if you buy the platinum suite you get this included:

Robert Henke · Post by **Robert Henke** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:26 pm

the_planet wrote:Live still sound like crap after all these years. I analyzed a 457.836hz sinoidal waveform in my Avid Tech Lab Spectral Digital Waveform Fourier Pulse Analyzer, and found that the output rendermode at 65ms at 574664dhz had a 45db discrepancy up in the 76.5mhz range. This is unacceptable for a modern digital audio work desk stereo mixing console. I'm sticking to my cassette recorder, the only viable modern real world songwriting synthprogramming professional audio production realm.

Must be a phase issue. The 65ms at 5.74 Mdhz can only be explained with a seventh order mercury shift. And this is CPU specific, and no software can change this. I bet you'll find a similar ondulation on a PC too.

However, I have serious doubt if this would be audible. If you simply fire a clip using the mouse, you'll create a Columb field of around three Nanowebster, unbiased (!!!). Via MIDI the results will be slightly better, around one or two Nanowebster, which is still higher then what you'll get using a medium sized Cembalo.

So, please do your homework before posting.

Thanx
R.

ChiDJ · Post by **ChiDJ** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:29 pm

forge wrote:if you buy the platinum suite you get this included:

I love's my Dapper Dan!

Anyone got a hair net?

Baron von Case · Post by **Baron von Case** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:37 pm

Audio quality degrades when it's put on a CD anyway. When music is mass released on Blu-Ray, then we'll start to worry. And by then Live will have higher quality (if there is in fact even a problem with it). So just relax.

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:44 pm

on the real... can we get a big round of applause for 64 bit summing and what it didn't do for audio quality but did do to eat up CPU power and development time?

thanks Ableton.

(I criticize because I love.)

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:41 pm

Robert will tell you that 64-bit summing was unnecessary and that it was all done for marketing and for fighting the bad rap Live gets for it's audio quality...I don't know if I disagree since my mixes in previous versions sounded as good as they did coming from Cubase or Sonar. But I can say that my mixes in L7 seem deeper and wider, especially with songs with a lot of analog sources like guitars or vocals. Then again, it could be a lot of the native Live plugs getting updates and sounding better...

Crash · Post by **Crash** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:55 pm

0 dB in Live = 1 = 10*10^-1 = 24 bit + 8 bit exponent = 32 bit floating-point can exactly express any 24 bit integer if the exponent is small enough!?

If I got that right then 64 bit summing cannot improve audio unless the processing of plugins is done in 64 as well, because when plugins output 32 bit then the sum will only 32 bit values.

The only exception is when you use fader gain-values that output 64 bit (inbetween for 32 bit) values.

Can anyone explain if any of Live's plugins are doing 64 bit processing? Does fader-gain in the 64 bit realm (to values not representable in 32 bit) happen regulary?

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:59 pm

Robert explained that the High Quality mode of EQ8 upsamples to 64-bit and then downsamples back to 32.

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:59 pm

it's 64 bit summing, not across the board 64 bit processing.

the change was something like a ~-80dB lower noise floor or somesuch nonsense.

you can use typical dB calculations with floating point numbers because the numbers can represent numbers between 0 and 1 or between 100 and 3,000... whatever Live needs at the time.

I think the dB calculation is your sound card setting, that's where Live converts 32 bit floating to a fixed point value, at all points before that up to your sound card it's floating point.

lola · Post by **lola** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:03 pm

If you have cubase, logic, live..whatever...they all stink at mixing, IMHO
Well..must say i don't like the cleanisch digital part+ i have huge problems to get a decent mix in the box dynamic and spectral wise, i like colorization and smear

I Always worked with analog desks, and with digital its a 180 turn to learn.
Its a habbit i can't seem to loose.
Still use hardware for my mixes, an old 32 channel soundcraft.

john doe by choice · Post by **john doe by choice** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:05 pm

Robert Henke wrote:
the_planet wrote: I'm sticking to my cassette recorder, the only viable modern real world songwriting synthprogramming professional audio production realm.
please do your homework before posting.

lulz