yo...
so i have been trying to make music in ableton and it's been painful but i am getting there. i have realised though that guitar music really resonates with me. i like the acoustic guitar sound and i have a guitar. i am very novice at the guitar but with the aid of ableton, some cutting and pasting, i am ready to give it a go in terms of incrorporating guitars in to my songs.
so i was wondering if there was any tips you could give me. kind of like an idiots guide. i really don't know what i should be doing. i mean, would you suggest a basic melody repeated, with about 4 chord changes to start off with. or does that stand out as being really basic?
do you overlay patterns from the same guitar as well?
i know there is not one way to do this. but i kind of need to paint by numbers to begin with just so i can get it in to my head, and then i think the creativity will be able to bloom. i seem to have mental blocks when it comes to incorporating new instruments as i have tended to only really listen to lyrics of the song and not pay a great amount of attention to progressions of instruments etc... until relatively recently.
once again your help and patience will be cherished.
thanks.
please help me as i make my 1st steps in2 guitar based music
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silverlulu
- Posts: 357
- Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:07 am
please help me as i make my 1st steps in2 guitar based music
1.6ghz dual core laptop, 1.5 gig ram - Live 6, Massive, Albino, Z3ta, Battery, Morphine, Dominator. Alesis io2, Edirol pcr-30 midi keyboard, perception 100 mic and shure sm 58 mic.
Well basically i think you talk about two things:
composing and producing
Read articles on the subjects e.g. soundonsound:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Aug01/a ... tr0801.asp
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug98/a ... 0tips.html
check interviews with artists/ mixers/ producers on their recordings
IMHO learn to play whole songs. It sounds a lot nicer than cutting up small pieces
(unless you want that effect), it gives you song sensibility and insight in chord structures.
- Take a song you like, get the tab from internet and learn to play it.
- a nice site to learn things from is http://www.guitarnoise.com/
-get a teacher, i never did this but this will increase your proficiency 4-fold
- check http://guitarprinciples.com/, this Jamie Andreas points out
very important physical attitudes towards playing, could save you a lot of aches in the future (believe me...),
just reading the pointers on the site will help, i never bought the books/ dvd's
Have fun!
composing and producing
Read articles on the subjects e.g. soundonsound:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Aug01/a ... tr0801.asp
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug98/a ... 0tips.html
check interviews with artists/ mixers/ producers on their recordings
IMHO learn to play whole songs. It sounds a lot nicer than cutting up small pieces
(unless you want that effect), it gives you song sensibility and insight in chord structures.
- Take a song you like, get the tab from internet and learn to play it.
- a nice site to learn things from is http://www.guitarnoise.com/
-get a teacher, i never did this but this will increase your proficiency 4-fold
- check http://guitarprinciples.com/, this Jamie Andreas points out
very important physical attitudes towards playing, could save you a lot of aches in the future (believe me...),
just reading the pointers on the site will help, i never bought the books/ dvd's
Have fun!
The first biggy for me, apart from the actual music, was the method of recording, either plugging straight into your interface, mic'ing or a combination of both. Getting the latency down to an acceptable level. Equipment, set up, ease of use. Maybe I am doing it wrong, but I can see that I need some sort of foot controller for some basic hands free operations to make the process of recording guitars easier. I guess its personal. Just start using the gear you have and find the road blocks, solve, and continue.
To the actual construction of the music, its song dependent, skill dependent etc. The guitar can be used in so many different ways. Start with simple 3-5 chord structures (you may need to buy a book on music theory) and learn a simple Minor Pentatonic scale pattern. Lay down simple drum and bass tracks and jam in key and start exploring. You will learn soooooo much by just doing.
All the Best.
To the actual construction of the music, its song dependent, skill dependent etc. The guitar can be used in so many different ways. Start with simple 3-5 chord structures (you may need to buy a book on music theory) and learn a simple Minor Pentatonic scale pattern. Lay down simple drum and bass tracks and jam in key and start exploring. You will learn soooooo much by just doing.
All the Best.
iMac - 10.10.3 - Live 9 Suite - APC40 - Axiom 61 - TX81z - Firestudio Mobile - Focal Alpha 80's - Godin Session - Home made foot controller
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longlivelavey
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:13 am
Re: please help me as i make my 1st steps in2 guitar based m
Hi silverlulu,
The road map that worked well for me at first was to learn the major chords (C, D, E, etc.) and a major/minor scale. Then I semi-learned a favorite song that was simple to play (think Bob Segar - Night Moves), and modified it with my own chord and scale changes. Since, like me, you enjoy the acoustic sound, you can never go wrong adding arpeggios to the mix either.
-- longlivelavey
The road map that worked well for me at first was to learn the major chords (C, D, E, etc.) and a major/minor scale. Then I semi-learned a favorite song that was simple to play (think Bob Segar - Night Moves), and modified it with my own chord and scale changes. Since, like me, you enjoy the acoustic sound, you can never go wrong adding arpeggios to the mix either.
-- longlivelavey
silverlulu wrote:yo...
so i have been trying to make music in ableton and it's been painful but i am getting there. i have realised though that guitar music really resonates with me. i like the acoustic guitar sound and i have a guitar. i am very novice at the guitar but with the aid of ableton, some cutting and pasting, i am ready to give it a go in terms of incrorporating guitars in to my songs.
so i was wondering if there was any tips you could give me. kind of like an idiots guide. i really don't know what i should be doing. i mean, would you suggest a basic melody repeated, with about 4 chord changes to start off with. or does that stand out as being really basic?
do you overlay patterns from the same guitar as well?
i know there is not one way to do this. but i kind of need to paint by numbers to begin with just so i can get it in to my head, and then i think the creativity will be able to bloom. i seem to have mental blocks when it comes to incorporating new instruments as i have tended to only really listen to lyrics of the song and not pay a great amount of attention to progressions of instruments etc... until relatively recently.
once again your help and patience will be cherished.
thanks.
-- longlivelavey
Been playing guitar for about 18 years, and Ableton for about 2.5, so here's my advice:
1) It would really help to listen to some other guitar music that inspires you. I mean there has to be some guitar music that you've listened to that led you to pick it up the guitar, right? As a beginner you will advance so much more by listening to others who have been that way before and essentially copying them. Don't be afraid to try things from a rock or folk approach in a different setting. For example Boards of Canada use acoustic guitar a lot. I know there are more....
1a) I wouldn't say rip people off... but there's pretty much no way you're gonna come up with a chord progression that hasn't already been done, so don't feel like using a chord progression you heard somewhere else is wrong. It's fine, as long as you treat it differently, approach it from a new direction. In fact, the law states that it's the melody that is the property of the composer, and the chord progression alone cannot be copyrighted. Look at how many songs have been based on the chords from Pachelbel's Canon.
This is entirely different from playing someone else's song exactly the same way and claiming it's yours. Eventually, once you play around with an idea, it starts to sound like your own. You copy others long enough that you no longer have to, and so you have a large pallete of your own to choose from. Sounds cliche, and it's kinda applicable to all artforms, but still good advice.
2) yes layer patterns, try things, see what sounds good, use your ear as a guide.
Technically speaking, do you know chords, scales, basic theory? Or is this a COMPLETELY new instrument for you?
If you already know some stuff, that will help with the previous advice.
If not, I suggest getting a basic chord book and maybe a scale book or method book that will give you the basics of harmony and such.
Hope that helps, I'll try to answer any other questions.
1) It would really help to listen to some other guitar music that inspires you. I mean there has to be some guitar music that you've listened to that led you to pick it up the guitar, right? As a beginner you will advance so much more by listening to others who have been that way before and essentially copying them. Don't be afraid to try things from a rock or folk approach in a different setting. For example Boards of Canada use acoustic guitar a lot. I know there are more....
1a) I wouldn't say rip people off... but there's pretty much no way you're gonna come up with a chord progression that hasn't already been done, so don't feel like using a chord progression you heard somewhere else is wrong. It's fine, as long as you treat it differently, approach it from a new direction. In fact, the law states that it's the melody that is the property of the composer, and the chord progression alone cannot be copyrighted. Look at how many songs have been based on the chords from Pachelbel's Canon.
This is entirely different from playing someone else's song exactly the same way and claiming it's yours. Eventually, once you play around with an idea, it starts to sound like your own. You copy others long enough that you no longer have to, and so you have a large pallete of your own to choose from. Sounds cliche, and it's kinda applicable to all artforms, but still good advice.
2) yes layer patterns, try things, see what sounds good, use your ear as a guide.
Technically speaking, do you know chords, scales, basic theory? Or is this a COMPLETELY new instrument for you?
If you already know some stuff, that will help with the previous advice.
If not, I suggest getting a basic chord book and maybe a scale book or method book that will give you the basics of harmony and such.
Hope that helps, I'll try to answer any other questions.
zsazsa wrote:Well basically i think you talk about two things:
composing and producing
Read articles on the subjects e.g. soundonsound:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Aug01/a ... tr0801.asp
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug98/a ... 0tips.html
check interviews with artists/ mixers/ producers on their recordings
IMHO learn to play whole songs. It sounds a lot nicer than cutting up small pieces
(unless you want that effect), it gives you song sensibility and insight in chord structures.
- Take a song you like, get the tab from internet and learn to play it.
- a nice site to learn things from is http://www.guitarnoise.com/
-get a teacher, i never did this but this will increase your proficiency 4-fold
- check http://guitarprinciples.com/, this Jamie Andreas points out
very important physical attitudes towards playing, could save you a lot of aches in the future (believe me...),
just reading the pointers on the site will help, i never bought the books/ dvd's
Have fun!
Hey thanks for those links! I'm always looking for new resources like this to help with the lifelong learning process!
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adventurepants_
- Posts: 1773
- Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 3:05 am
a very important tip that works for me is to not compose in front of ableton with a guitar. Its the ultimate flow killer for me. If i have no idea what i want to record, i just end up noodling with FX for hours. If i already have a guitar part i want to expand on ready to go before i fire up Live, things go much smoother.
the best bit about playing guitar is that you can do it away from the computer. take it out to the park, serenade strangers, scare children, go nuts!
the best bit about playing guitar is that you can do it away from the computer. take it out to the park, serenade strangers, scare children, go nuts!
nathannn wrote:i will block everyone on this forum if i have to.
I'd just start with 1 or 2 chords. first time you hear yourself play is VERY humbling, it's also a great way to get better, there's no bullshitting how bad you really sound.
once you get over that, just have fun. play SIMPLE stuff that's easy to add more parts over.
one tip I've found when latency gets annoying is to start the recording going CLICK click click click CLICK click click click (1 2 3 4 etc) (on a string with the pic) as a breadcrumb you can warp from or at least set the '1' to. it's a no bullshit way to get around latency compensation and re-aligning your takes at low sample rates.
make sure you tune up before you record, there's no fixing that later and adding more later on will suck, it won't match.
if you get stuck for ideas, throw on a capo, everything old is new again.
once you get over that, just have fun. play SIMPLE stuff that's easy to add more parts over.
one tip I've found when latency gets annoying is to start the recording going CLICK click click click CLICK click click click (1 2 3 4 etc) (on a string with the pic) as a breadcrumb you can warp from or at least set the '1' to. it's a no bullshit way to get around latency compensation and re-aligning your takes at low sample rates.
make sure you tune up before you record, there's no fixing that later and adding more later on will suck, it won't match.
if you get stuck for ideas, throw on a capo, everything old is new again.
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz
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yearlongyeti
- Posts: 109
- Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 5:45 am
Hey mate, for me the biggest thing with accoustic guitar is rhythm. I would go to a midi site such as www.cool-midi.com nick a basic drum beat off a song you like and just bash over the top of it with the basic chords you know. PLaying to the metronome is a sure fire way to suck the life out of a song.
Alot of bands use accoustic guitar to follow the or replace the hi hats of a song (see Newton Faulkener "Dream catch me", or Matchbox 20 "how far we've come" etc.). Or you could learn some reggae which is often easy to play, go crazy with the effects and you'll start getting some cool dub feels. Bob marley three little birds is just A, D and E (strum on the off beat).
All the best.
Alot of bands use accoustic guitar to follow the or replace the hi hats of a song (see Newton Faulkener "Dream catch me", or Matchbox 20 "how far we've come" etc.). Or you could learn some reggae which is often easy to play, go crazy with the effects and you'll start getting some cool dub feels. Bob marley three little birds is just A, D and E (strum on the off beat).
All the best.
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silverlulu
- Posts: 357
- Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:07 am
thanks a lot for everyone's input. there is lots of really helpful info here and i can feel the mental block dissolving... and what's this... hope?!
cheers again!
cheers again!
1.6ghz dual core laptop, 1.5 gig ram - Live 6, Massive, Albino, Z3ta, Battery, Morphine, Dominator. Alesis io2, Edirol pcr-30 midi keyboard, perception 100 mic and shure sm 58 mic.
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pepezabala
- Posts: 3503
- Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 4:29 pm
- Location: In Berlin, finally
OK, all above are right, but here is a different approach:
-Listen to a band called "the books". They make guitar-based music but according to their interviews there is a whole lot cutting and pasting of audio-snippets going on.
-set up a good recording situation for your guitar. This can be either via amp-simulation (a software called guitar-rig or get a pocket pod) or a good microphone, even a silent room and your laptop-mic can work.
-record long pieces of strumming, picking, whatever. try to let the chords or notes sustain until silence.
-now edit those recordings in arrangement view, non-warped. Cut them into their "atoms" - meaning notes and chords and maybe little sequences of them.
-Now start to puzzle new pieces out of those little clips you have made. Try to not use more than lets say three or four channels of guitar (one or two with chords, one or two with notes/melodies). Put the clips on the grid, but don't warp them - to maintain a good sound quality. You can consolidate your stuff later.
After a couple of days you should yield some interesting results. Continue. Don't listen to anyone who talks about harmonic-theory, jazz chords, practicing, etc. They are talking about things from last century when computers were to slow to help you in making music.
-Listen to a band called "the books". They make guitar-based music but according to their interviews there is a whole lot cutting and pasting of audio-snippets going on.
-set up a good recording situation for your guitar. This can be either via amp-simulation (a software called guitar-rig or get a pocket pod) or a good microphone, even a silent room and your laptop-mic can work.
-record long pieces of strumming, picking, whatever. try to let the chords or notes sustain until silence.
-now edit those recordings in arrangement view, non-warped. Cut them into their "atoms" - meaning notes and chords and maybe little sequences of them.
-Now start to puzzle new pieces out of those little clips you have made. Try to not use more than lets say three or four channels of guitar (one or two with chords, one or two with notes/melodies). Put the clips on the grid, but don't warp them - to maintain a good sound quality. You can consolidate your stuff later.
After a couple of days you should yield some interesting results. Continue. Don't listen to anyone who talks about harmonic-theory, jazz chords, practicing, etc. They are talking about things from last century when computers were to slow to help you in making music.
I've been playing guitar for over 25 years now and I have to say the biggest piece of advice i can give you is be honest with yourself about your playing.
I was on ia forum the other day having a look around and some guy had posted up a guitar song which was getting big ups from everyone on the board and I had to say that the guitar playing was truly, truly dreadful.
The guitar was clearly out of tune to start with and none of the bends were being hit and the rest was just 2NPS patterns up and down the same scale with very little sync between left and right hand. Tedious, painful and very amateur.
Keep it simple, make sure your guitar is in tune and you won't go far wrong.
I was on ia forum the other day having a look around and some guy had posted up a guitar song which was getting big ups from everyone on the board and I had to say that the guitar playing was truly, truly dreadful.
The guitar was clearly out of tune to start with and none of the bends were being hit and the rest was just 2NPS patterns up and down the same scale with very little sync between left and right hand. Tedious, painful and very amateur.
Keep it simple, make sure your guitar is in tune and you won't go far wrong.
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Low Frequency Obstinator
- Posts: 187
- Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:32 am
- Location: Bristol
- Contact:
1) Have the guitar professionaly set-up so as to get the most from the action (distance between the fret board and string) and the intonation (the length of each string can be adjusted to give the best possible tuning)
You can do this yourself but takes years to master. Should only cost about £30 with strings thrown in.
2) Use a tuner, not your ears
3) Practise with a metronome or click track (You can get away with the odd timing error if recording and adjusting afterwards but if you learn to play on the beat any errors you may make get 'hidden wid da riddem' (Listen to Zappa for prime example of this)
4) If you have an electro acoustic, record both the pick up (direct in) and also mic up the sound hole (to pick up any pick or finger noises, this can make your sound more 'real')
5) grow the nails on your picking hand, far more tactile than any plectrum.
6) Nick licks-n-tricks of any and every guitarist you meet, you can increase the learing curve enormously.
7) Have your bat nearby at all times, keep noodling as much as possible,
8 ) Less is more: Some chords sound better when fewer strings are used...some of the best guitar hooks have chords of only two notes at a time, gives a cleaner sound.
9) Watch the movie 'Crossroads' with Ralph Maccio - bit like the Karate Kid but with blues guitar. Pukka film.
10) Enjoy - You now have a freind for life.
You can do this yourself but takes years to master. Should only cost about £30 with strings thrown in.
2) Use a tuner, not your ears
3) Practise with a metronome or click track (You can get away with the odd timing error if recording and adjusting afterwards but if you learn to play on the beat any errors you may make get 'hidden wid da riddem' (Listen to Zappa for prime example of this)
4) If you have an electro acoustic, record both the pick up (direct in) and also mic up the sound hole (to pick up any pick or finger noises, this can make your sound more 'real')
5) grow the nails on your picking hand, far more tactile than any plectrum.
6) Nick licks-n-tricks of any and every guitarist you meet, you can increase the learing curve enormously.
7) Have your bat nearby at all times, keep noodling as much as possible,
8 ) Less is more: Some chords sound better when fewer strings are used...some of the best guitar hooks have chords of only two notes at a time, gives a cleaner sound.
9) Watch the movie 'Crossroads' with Ralph Maccio - bit like the Karate Kid but with blues guitar. Pukka film.
10) Enjoy - You now have a freind for life.
Live (yoghurt) - MBP- Circuit Bent Rampant Rabbit - Mongolian Nose Flute - 'The Marvelous Mechanical Mouse Organ' (on loan from Bagpuss) and a Swanee Whistle made from a used heroin syringe.
9) no!
Just because watching Steve Vai play at the end is demoralising for anyone.
TBH, I think you want to start making music right? It is going to take years to learn guitar properly so i would think about short passges which you can mangle and chop in Live and use them as you would any other clips. that way you can be up and running quickly and making music which is what you want to do. By all means learn guitar as you go but don't let your inabilities stop you making music.
like i say, keep it simple.
Just because watching Steve Vai play at the end is demoralising for anyone.
TBH, I think you want to start making music right? It is going to take years to learn guitar properly so i would think about short passges which you can mangle and chop in Live and use them as you would any other clips. that way you can be up and running quickly and making music which is what you want to do. By all means learn guitar as you go but don't let your inabilities stop you making music.
like i say, keep it simple.
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Warminstrel
- Posts: 498
- Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:40 am
- Location: Bristol, South West, UK
- Contact:
