Live audio quality?

3dot... · Post by **3dot...** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:03 pm

HEY... you got sometin' against Behringer fella ?!

Robert Henke · Post by **Robert Henke** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:07 pm

Hmm, this would be a longer discussion....

Crash · Post by **Crash** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:12 pm

Robert Henke wrote:LOL.LOL.LOL.

And i thought all the years, it was a clipping mixer on stage, a *** compressor
followed by a *** crossover, followed by another *** Ultrathingie, rotten
cables, speakers with 10mm nicotine on the membrane, hundreds of people shouting
to each other, the noise from the aircondition, the loud bar crew, a badly sounding
room, and i was SO WRONG. It was all LIVEs fault...

I understand this part of your ironic lament and you are very right with what you say. But does that mean we should not discuss Live as a source of problems just because other gear adds to it? If a straight beat turns into a shuffled beat because of phase modulation within Live, do you think the audience does not hear the difference because of the flawed equipment you listed?

You are a genious, Mr. 64 bit !

This part I do not understand, I basically supported your own earlier post about the 64-bit summing engine.

I hope this was "technical" and "unemotional" enough. I do not want to annoy Ableton staff, they are always so nice to me.

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:43 pm

.WAVS or STFU

dom · Post by **dom** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:05 pm

Crash wrote: My attitude towards service is mostly not negative, but neutral. But how positive do you expect someone to be who is not being serviced for several months.

Let me see...

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=757566

Ah, nope. I don't want to offend you but your attitude is negative and your behavior anti-social:
I'm afraid you lie (not serviced for several months) and you troll - both in public.

Crash wrote: You mean that you get emails complaining about my presence on the forum? This is bad, man, this is real bad. I didn't know people are so deeply lost in here. You really don't have deal with that. Just forward the junk to my mailbox, I will deal with it myself.

That's what i mean.
And i guess they wouldn't contact us if they want to deal with you directly.
Understandable.
I will stop commenting here, too, my position should be clear by now. And while trying to be polite: this is the only suggestion i can give to everyone else regarding your permanent pestering and trolling - just ignore it.
Not only in this thread, not only at our forum.

Don't feed the trolls,
Dom

sweetjesus · Post by **sweetjesus** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:20 pm

sick

i brought this thread back to life to stop u guys making music so i can get ahead in my career..

*rubs hands*

working like a charm..

p0unce · Post by **p0unce** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:30 pm

.WAVS or STFU

sweetjesus · Post by **sweetjesus** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:08 pm

p0unce wrote:.WAVS or STFU

ill take the STFU please..

aeon · Post by **aeon** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:13 pm

i wanted to contribute to this thread without getting slated, so i'm just going to state my opinions and a few facts.

i don't claim to have golden ears (fact).

i'm not any more 'pro' than anybody else (fact).

i haven't posted in this thread before (fact).

i don't warp clips (fact).

i have released music made with Ableton (fact).

i am running the latest version of Live 6 (fact).

i have played on some reasonably-sized soundsystems (the Funktion One rig from Glade) and some reasonably-sized venues (SEOne in London) (fact).

the majority of producers in my genre use Cubase, but there are some - like Scorb, who posted in this thread - who use Live. (fact)

i have always maintained that differences in perceivable audio quality tend to be about DAW environments shaping working habits rather than any drastic difference in the 'final product' of the DAW itself. i.e. the way in which you work in FLStudio, or the channel EQs in Sonar, or the midi editing in EnergyXT, or the routing in REAPER, or the pan law in DP, or the GUI in Live, will have as much if not more influence on music made in those DAWs than any processing differences. (opinion)

i have often felt there is something missing in my music and 99% of the time it is something that i could fix or change myself. (opinion)

i have recently started using Cubase SX and, like many of my peers - who also release and perform music regularly - i find there is something about it which, sonically, i prefer. this has NOTHING to do with warping, or session view, or why i bought live, or how big my cock is; i just feel that i enjoy the results of working in the Cubase environment more than i enjoy the process of working in the Live environment. (part fact, part opinion).

lest we forget, the consumption and production of music is bound by the same inescapable subjectivity that characterises the whole human experience. there's no scientific evidence that Boyzone produce unlistenable shit or that salman rushdie hasn't written a decent book in decades. (fact)

i feel more confident with the aural output from SX. i don't know why. i don't consider Ableton a toy - i am a customer who has spent a goodly amount of money on purchasing and upgrading the program, and an even more goodly amount of time working with it. i love Live dearly. but for some reason... i prefer the 'sound' of Cubase. (opinion)

but... why?

is it merely a psychosomatic placebo effect?

is it that since i've been looking for a way to improve my 'sound', and Cubase is one avenue i've investigated, that therefore i'm subconciously imposing positive results to convince myself that i've made the right move?

is it that i expect a costly and complex new piece of software to produce qualitatively better results?

given that i have asked myself the above questions and cannot come up with an answer, i would be most grateful if someone from Ableton could answer the following:

improvements in the audio engine were touted at Live 7's launch, and Ableton have confirmed that - like all DAW coders - they are constantly seeking to improve Live's audio handling.

given that something must have been lacking in order for improvements to take place, how much do you think previous iterations of live needed improving?

are we talking about minute, inaudible, miniscule distinctions which are of no statistical or musical significance?

dom · Post by **dom** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:26 pm

aeon wrote: are we talking about minute, inaudible, miniscule distinctions which are of no statistical or musical significance?[/i][/b]

It is more like always trying to improve several aspects, nothing to do with something lacking in audio quality in general.

Improvements in Live 7, from the top of my head:
64bit High quality mode for Operator, EQ8, Saturator and Dynamic Tube, 64bit summing, added Dithering etc.

How much those improvements influence your work is hard to say.

It's nothing general like: Aaaah, in Live 7 the highs are more crisp compared to Live 6 etc.

Cheers,
Dom

Crash · Post by **Crash** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:48 pm

b0unce wrote:.WAVS or STFU

You had your change, but you came too late, buddy.

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 915#603915

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:56 pm

files have expired.

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:59 pm

fucking tumor again and to think he's been behind this whole trash/crash thing.

*reaches for the [x] *

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:02 pm

you think he was also trash?

Timur - keep your game tight, short posts, be cool man. even if you were trash and crash you're more interesting than a lot of posters on here who are just in it for the OT.

Crash · Post by **Crash** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:06 pm

dom wrote:Let me see...

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=757566

That was satire.

Ah, nope. I don't want to offend you but your attitude is negative and your behavior anti-social:
I'm afraid you lie (not serviced for several months) and you troll - both in public.

Sorry, I cannot reproduce this, please send in another report including details about the error and exact procedure on how to reproduce the issue including informations as to be found here:

http://www.ableton.com/pages/support_contact

And here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netiquette

Thank you for contacting my service. Have a nice day.

That's what i mean.
And i guess they wouldn't contact us if they want to deal with you directly.
Understandable.

What a miserable excuse! One third of my posts here are helping other users, often trying to answer question that none of the masters of the board care to take time for, because they are too busy writing about anal sex, abusing women as toys and insulting each other. I have never written any offensive PM to other users even when they would have deserved it. The only people having regular problems with my "attitude" are those who are using this forum as their private hangout and those who obviously don't care to read help-threads from less active/new users.

It's hillarious how my participation on the technical side of Live's audio quality has turned into a rant thread so easily. Hello? Is anyone out there willing to discuss the matter on basis of the technical background? Please do so and ignore the angry kids that keep hijacking this thread. At least I am always very interested in learning from a sophisticated discussion.