Timur - it's the internet, a horrible form of communication. we can talk about this stuff but we should all be more careful about keeping level heads and staying focused. I've also been guilty of this.
personally, I'd like shorter posts, long posts open up more cans of worms, make things more complicated and only lead to rants and flames.
Live audio quality?
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john doe by choice
- Posts: 1085
- Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:21 am
Henkelulz brings the lolsRobert Henke wrote: And i thought all the years, it was a clipping mixer on stage, a *** Ultra super compressor
followed by a ***Ultra low super crossover, followed by another *** Ultrathingie, rotten
cables, speakers with 10mm nicotine on the membrane, hundreds of people shouting
to each other, the noise from the aircondition, the loud bar crew, a badly sounding
room, and i was SO WRONG. It was all LIVEs fault...
I am not Trash, he is active on this board since 2005 you braindeads! At that time I didn't even own a suitable audio-card for DAW work and was too busy playing with bands to be hanging around on any forums.
I have not been participating on this forum for two months. I had the account Timur deleted in order to keep me from posting here and to keep users from writing me "help" PMs while in return the forum people keep insulting me. I had one and a half week of fun setting up a nice little challenge and using some language common to this place.
Then I dropped the character and mostly answered to help-seeking threads without creating any own threads. Then I noticed the "Live Audio Quality" thread was bumped and thought to participate in the discussion. Wrong choice, sorry!
I have not been participating on this forum for two months. I had the account Timur deleted in order to keep me from posting here and to keep users from writing me "help" PMs while in return the forum people keep insulting me. I had one and a half week of fun setting up a nice little challenge and using some language common to this place.
Then I dropped the character and mostly answered to help-seeking threads without creating any own threads. Then I noticed the "Live Audio Quality" thread was bumped and thought to participate in the discussion. Wrong choice, sorry!
I know, that's why I said "too late". The post is from December 2007 and the whole thing is going on and on and on and on. You wouldn't believe how many Emails, Live Sets, explanations, descriptions and pleading for help I have written in the meantime. All the audios, videos, screenshots, Live sets and words lead to one recurring answer: We cannot reproduce this!Tone Deft wrote:files have expired.
And that is what really annoys me, coming from the company that developed the damn application. I can reproduce several timing/phase shifting isses within minutes in front of witnessed on various systems. And I am confident that if there are any differences between Live's audio quality and that of other DAWs at all than the most important source are these shifts.
Are they so "obvious" that they are dealbreakers for the majority of users? Nope! If they were we wouldn't have to attend half mysterious/religions discussions about the sound of the summing engine. Should even subtle sound-affecting issues be acknowledged and possibly adressed? Yap!
Good Night everyone.
This is just one example of time-shifting. I keep finding more and more of these, around 6 different situations now I think (need to count my reports on that).
All tracks play the same sound (mono plugin on track 2), they can be nullified in a test. Tracks 1+2 are Midi plugins, Track 3 is an audio-clip:
Most people wont notice this as the phase shift is small. It may lead to unwanted modulation though and with external plugins the time of the shift can vary with each Scene launch.
All tracks play the same sound (mono plugin on track 2), they can be nullified in a test. Tracks 1+2 are Midi plugins, Track 3 is an audio-clip:
Most people wont notice this as the phase shift is small. It may lead to unwanted modulation though and with external plugins the time of the shift can vary with each Scene launch.
Last edited by Crash on Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Another thing to watch out for that is rather subtle and might not interest most people:
I recorded a 16 bar audio clip a template in Live 7.09 that was set to 90.00 bpm.
Several days later I opened Live 7.0.11 and imported the clip into the very same template (without Live automatically changing its tempo to the imported clip). Live automatically set Warp Loop as is set per default in the preferences.
According to Live the clip was warped at 90.00 bpm, which should mean it was warped at original tempo and no change in sound should happen.
But in a inversion-test it turned out that only Beats, Tones and Textures would nullify against each other and the unwarped clip while Repitch would gradually increase in volume against the other Warps and the unwarped clip.
Obviously the recorded clip's tempo was something like 90.00xyz and Repitch is more prone to this small amount of tempo-difference. Because resetting it to original tempo via "Warp 90 bpm from here" made it nullify perfectly again.
For testing I rendered a new clip today and imported it into the very same session right away (making sure that Live does not automatically change it's tempo setting). It doesn't happen there.
So I don't know what happened, but for some reason 90.00 bpm became different at different days or Live versions. Because of that I will always make sure to manually warp clips to the original/current tempo of the set as there's something unreliable about the whole process.
I recorded a 16 bar audio clip a template in Live 7.09 that was set to 90.00 bpm.
Several days later I opened Live 7.0.11 and imported the clip into the very same template (without Live automatically changing its tempo to the imported clip). Live automatically set Warp Loop as is set per default in the preferences.
According to Live the clip was warped at 90.00 bpm, which should mean it was warped at original tempo and no change in sound should happen.
But in a inversion-test it turned out that only Beats, Tones and Textures would nullify against each other and the unwarped clip while Repitch would gradually increase in volume against the other Warps and the unwarped clip.
Obviously the recorded clip's tempo was something like 90.00xyz and Repitch is more prone to this small amount of tempo-difference. Because resetting it to original tempo via "Warp 90 bpm from here" made it nullify perfectly again.
For testing I rendered a new clip today and imported it into the very same session right away (making sure that Live does not automatically change it's tempo setting). It doesn't happen there.
So I don't know what happened, but for some reason 90.00 bpm became different at different days or Live versions. Because of that I will always make sure to manually warp clips to the original/current tempo of the set as there's something unreliable about the whole process.