Democracy still works. Bill a no go

NorthernMonkey · Post by **NorthernMonkey** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:52 pm

Emissary wrote:to be fair, if america goes down its taking the uk with it. So if this bill fails to ignite the markets then the uk is going to be hit almost as hard.

Totally agree, we need this to succeed as much as they do.

OvertoneZero · Post by **OvertoneZero** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:53 pm

btw, the dow is down 140 points. Looks like an awesome rescue plan if ever I've seen one. It was up 200 this morning before the vote.

NorthernMonkey · Post by **NorthernMonkey** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:54 pm

OvertoneZero wrote:I live in America but I sure wish I didn't. I am single, I have no debt, I have always lived within my means. Why should I pay for this shit? Garbage.

Because your stupid fucking neighbours have debt they can't repay and live well beyond their means.

Moody · Post by **Moody** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:58 pm

OvertoneZero wrote:btw, the dow is down 140 points. Looks like an awesome rescue plan if ever I've seen one. It was up 200 this morning before the vote.

The market is about to close. Wait till Monday.

Emissary · Post by **Emissary** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:00 pm

Moody wrote:
OvertoneZero wrote:btw, the dow is down 140 points. Looks like an awesome rescue plan if ever I've seen one. It was up 200 this morning before the vote.
The market is about to close. Wait till Monday.

yeah, it will be interesting next week thats for sure.

NorthernMonkey · Post by **NorthernMonkey** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:00 pm

OvertoneZero wrote:btw, the dow is down 140 points. Looks like an awesome rescue plan if ever I've seen one. It was up 200 this morning before the vote.

Wha? The markets will be fluctuating for months, it will take time to settle down.

elxicano · Post by **elxicano** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:24 pm

NorthernMonkey wrote:
OvertoneZero wrote:btw, the dow is down 140 points. Looks like an awesome rescue plan if ever I've seen one. It was up 200 this morning before the vote.
Wha? The markets will be fluctuating for months, it will take time to settle down.

It may fluctuate longer than that...

I'm betting that another major financial institution will bite the dust before this is all over.

gjm · Post by **gjm** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:27 pm

elxicano wrote:
NorthernMonkey wrote:
OvertoneZero wrote:btw, the dow is down 140 points. Looks like an awesome rescue plan if ever I've seen one. It was up 200 this morning before the vote.
Wha? The markets will be fluctuating for months, it will take time to settle down.
It may fluctuate longer than that...

I'm betting that another major financial institution will bite the dust before this is all over.

Perhaps even a small country even....

Landwhale · Post by **Landwhale** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:16 pm

Now definitely isn't the time to panic. We still have a little while to go about our business.
A little while.
Spend time with family, enjoy good food, appreciate things that you've taken for granted for far too long... all of us.
Seriously.

Moody · Post by **Moody** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:47 pm

Landwhale wrote:Now definitely isn't the time to panic. We still have a little while to go about our business.
A little while.
Spend time with family, enjoy good food, appreciate things that you've taken for granted for far too long... all of us.
Seriously.

Unfortunately, this is how I feel as well.

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:17 pm

NorthernMonkey wrote:
OvertoneZero wrote:I live in America but I sure wish I didn't. I am single, I have no debt, I have always lived within my means. Why should I pay for this shit? Garbage.
Because your stupid fucking neighbours have debt they can't repay and live well beyond their means.

Jeez? maybe it's due to stupid fucking banks that practically force loans on people with no real credit record? Maybe it's absolutely ironic situations like my roommate who makes less than $1200 a month getting a no interest for 9 months credit card application in the mail from of all fucking institutions Washington Mutual!!!

It's your asshole overlords northernmonkey that prey on the desperation of the working and lower classes to have middle class status that caused this. You can't in one respect tell people they don't understand economics, don't have credentials etc. then turn around and blame the unwashed masses (who you just derided as not competent in economic matters) for being convinced by some asswipe that they can pull together the mortgage etc.
Case in point, the mortgage banker at my bank calls me every 3 months or so to see if I'm 'ready to buy, or am thinking about buying a home?', because I walked in there once almost two years ago. I know for certain that the mortgage on a house in my area is right above what I feel comfortable paying, and it's possible that I would end up losing the house etc. Do you know how many times I've told asswipe that I don't make enough for the mortgage in this area?? I don't blame people for being fooled into taking risks that fail, I blame bankers for being greedy.

So again, the end result is what? Who fucking calls these people on this? if it's nobody and we just lost 700 billion to banks, then that really really really sucks!

OvertoneZero · Post by **OvertoneZero** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:27 pm

You are correct, there is no accountability. Bankers and hedge fund managers walk away with hundreds of millions and their firms get bailed out on the back of the American middle class. Also, the USA is bailing out lots of foreign entities with this bill.

We are no longer just the world policeman, we are now the world's rich daddy. Too bad the rich daddy is writing checks from a bankrupt account. That's ok though, because when the game is over, we can just wipe out the dollar and start fresh with a new currency system.

NorthernMonkey · Post by **NorthernMonkey** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:59 pm

Machinesworking wrote:Jeez? maybe it's due to stupid fucking banks that practically force loans on people with no real credit record? Maybe it's absolutely ironic situations like my roommate who makes less than $1200 a month getting a no interest for 9 months credit card application in the mail from of all fucking institutions Washington Mutual!!!

How do banks force loans and credit cards onto people? They are voluntarily applied for by adults who are responsible for their own debts.

It's your asshole overlords northernmonkey that prey on the desperation of the working and lower classes to have middle class status that caused this.

They have a choice. On a side issue, I work in investment banking, not retail ('commercial' in the US) banking - sub-prime is retail banking.

You can't in one respect tell people they don't understand economics, don't have credentials etc. then turn around and blame the unwashed masses (who you just derided as not competent in economic matters) for being convinced by some asswipe that they can pull together the mortgage etc.

Once again, they have a choice.

Case in point, the mortgage banker at my bank calls me every 3 months or so to see if I'm 'ready to buy, or am thinking about buying a home?', because I walked in there once almost two years ago. I know for certain that the mortgage on a house in my area is right above what I feel comfortable paying, and it's possible that I would end up losing the house etc. Do you know how many times I've told asswipe that I don't make enough for the mortgage in this area?? I don't blame people for being fooled into taking risks that fail, I blame bankers for being greedy.

So you exercise your choice to say 'no' right?

So again, the end result is what? Who fucking calls these people on this? if it's nobody and we just lost 700 billion to banks, then that really really really sucks!

I'm getting fed up of saying this - the bailout/rescue plan/whatever is to remove bad debt and increase market liquidity. It's not rocket science. The US taxpayer hasn't lost anything yet, they have just financed the bad debt to get credit flowing again (you know, the stuff that generates growth and stimulates economies). It's just possible that it might not cost anything in the long run, only time will tell. Regardless of all of the media and political ranting, the bottom line is that it was necessary.

Baron von Case · Post by **Baron von Case** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:01 am

y2k anyone?

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:34 am

@ northernmonkey...
It's IMO incredibly self serving and lacking in compassion, as well as a total cop out on your part to blame a lending mess like this on the borrowers, who have neither the financial means or education to understand the consequences. I loan you money and I'm definitely going to be making sure I know exactly who you are, I'm not going to inflate my assets by loaning money to more people than I can afford to lose from without making sure the percentages are on my side. Tell me this, if there wasn't something fucked up happening on the part of the system in place, why the hell doesn't this happen all the time??

Where exactly do you think the 700 billion will come from?