Democracy still works. Bill a no go

OvertoneZero · Post by **OvertoneZero** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:34 pm

I hope the internet doesn't get turned off

Emissary · Post by **Emissary** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:35 pm

OvertoneZero wrote:I hope the internet doesn't get turned off

OvertoneZero · Post by **OvertoneZero** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:35 pm

and eating also, mmm food

Emissary · Post by **Emissary** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:39 pm

OvertoneZero wrote:and eating also, mmm food

if they turned eating off then i would kick off

deva · Post by **deva** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:01 pm

OvertoneZero wrote:and eating also, mmm food

you had best go stock up on food...

there will be shortages soon

deva · Post by **deva** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:05 pm

unsurprisingly, Paulson has picked another former Goldman Sachs executive to be the interim head of the $700B giveaway

Baron von Case · Post by **Baron von Case** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:27 pm

I ran every toll on the Illinois Turnpike accidentally and no one ever gave me shit for it. They probably make a million dollars in change a day, so they can't be bothered to send a bill.

haha at the guy who said you weren't organized and that you're blaming other people. Grow up, man.

adventurepants_ · Post by **adventurepants_** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:35 am

Landwhale wrote:
how is this story indicative of government control? this story just says to me that youre not organised enough to pay the tolls you knew you were going through, and want to blame it on everyone but yourself.
You completely missed the point pants. A point I felt was REALLY obvious, but I suppose not.
You see, I tried to use a small example as a microcosm for the big picture here, but as usual, it falls on deaf ears.
I'm not blaming anyone for my "lack of organization" as you may call it, I'm pissed about my lack of choice in the matter, as well as the ridiculous punishment that WHILE MINOR in financial cost, is still complete bullshit.
I wouldn't normally be inclined to explain myself further in a situation like this, but I'm confused as to how you missed my point, so I'll divulge a bit more information.

I was starting up a new guitar class at one of the school's that I supervise in Orlando, I currently oversee the guitar classes at 20 different schools in Central and South Florida. So I guess the ExpressWay Authority is RIGHT, I deserve to be fined if I don't have all the toll booth options memorized for all the routes that I might take on any given day. Same goes for all the other awful, disorganized bastards that have MUCH harder, more demanding lives than I do.
Damn all those delinquent mothers and fathers out there trying to drive their kids to schools or the babysitter's, or grocery store, any of the milions of things on their plate on any given day. Fine those assholes, they should have been prepared. Lazy fucks, right?
Considering I HAD the money on me, and most toll booths have an option to pay with cash, I felt I was fully prepared for the situation at hand.
However, since I was NOT given the choice to pay with cash, I'm now "experiencing problems with payment" according to the ExpressWay Authority, and any further "problems with payment" will result in me having to pay fines to the ExpressWay Authority.

You're probably thinking, "God, why get so worked about something so small, just pay your fine and get on with life". Well, fuck that.

It's not about the small fine they charge now, it's about how far these types of things can and WILL eventually go. The next logical step, in the eyes of the ExpressWay Authority, is to remove the options to pay with cash or change, since it is far more "inconvenient", and therefore require you to either have an ePass or other automatic tracking device to charge to your account.

I don't think it's hard to grasp what I'm talking about here. We're not living (for the moment anyways) in what one would typically think of as a fascist state.
In most cases, there is no iron fist smashing you in the face oppressing you in a very non-debatable, obvious manner.

What's happening here, and has been happening, is that we're slowly being convinced to FUCK OURSELVES, and made to believe that we deserve it.
Adventurepants, statements like yours and djadonis unfortunately re-affirm this in my eyes. This is not a jab at you, I'm sure your both good people. That's why it is disheartening to me, I hate seeing people around me feel as though they deserve whatever the system decides to give them, whether it be punishment or reward.
We're being conditioned to feel like criminals for simply being human.
You may think that it stops there, with traffic infractions and the like. But believe me it does not, and will continue to get worse.

You may think that it is a ridiculous statement to say that the very kind of conversation we're having on this forum may one day be ILLEGAL. Yet think about it. Once the "domestic terrorism" theme starts really taking off in this country, which it already has (Palin is using it very casually now when talking about "Obama's pals"), and political dissent can be legally defined as terrorism, WHICH IT ALREADY COULD BE, then how hard would it be for the CIA to search forums and/or put filters on them? China already publicly does this shit, and if you don't think it will/does happen here, then you must have no foresight at all, or you're in complete denial of where you live.

Social networks like Myspace & Facebook already have the potential as HUGE data-mining farms for the CIA, and at risk of being a "conspiracy theorist", I believe it is WELL within the realm of reality to say that this has long been true.

i grasped your point, i simply dont agree with it. It sounds like all the complaining I hear about the government by other people who cant be bothered to work to change any of it.

deva · Post by **deva** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:27 am

adventurepants_ wrote: i grasped your point, i simply dont agree with it. It sounds like all the complaining I hear about the government by other people who cant be bothered to work to change any of it.

Plenty of people work very hard and also happen to offer criticism of the status quo. Lumping everyone in a category of your own making so that you can dismiss them is manipulative bullshit.

forge · Post by **forge** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:33 am

for everyone fearing the worst, here is a good article putting it into context - saying things now are very different to 1929

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl ... _1929.html

Landwhale · Post by **Landwhale** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:36 am

i grasped your point, i simply dont agree with it. It sounds like all the complaining I hear about the government by other people who cant be bothered to work to change any of it.

Well done sir. Out of curiosity, what do you suggest "us people who can't be bothered to change anything" do? I suppose a vote for Obama will solve our problems?
What bold steps have you taken to change your lifestyle that you can offer as suggestions for us whiny in-subordinates?
In the future, it might be wise to know a bit about the person you're talking to before you offer up a weak ass challenge like the horseshit that just dribbled from your mouth(fingers).

While I'm willing to bet you've done not a goddamn thing to change yours

, I've done quite a bit over the last 10 years to change mine.
I do a pretty damn good job of NOT purchasing products from corrupt companies, so as not to support corporations and industries that are detrimental to local economies and/or our environment. I don't make quite enough money to eat strictly organic meats, fruits and vegetables, I'm about 70% there, and I buy locally produced as often as possible.
I don't support the fast food industry, the cable television industry, the pharmaceutical drug industry, etc.
On the rare occasion I buy "new" clothes, they're almost always 2nd hand, I don't drink and smoke myself into a stupor every weekend (though of course I have a drink now and then), nor do I dose myself up with TV every night, in fact, I haven't owned a television of my own in 5 years.

Also, I've removed myself from the corporate slave world, I was a freelance audio engineer for a few years, and now I work for a non-profit organization teaching guitar, supervising 20 schools, currently writing a guitar instruction book for children, and a shit ton of computer work for the company.

I drive as little as I can get away with, though unfortunately the supervising DOES require me to drive a lot more than I'd like. That being said, I'm setting up the teacher's I supervise with Skype and webcams so that I can make as little trips as possible. While we're on computers, I also use very little paper nowadays.

I could go on and on here, but there's no need to continue to toot my own horn here, since I'm sure that's what half of you are thinking. The fact is, NONE of what I've mentioned will do one fucking thing to "change the government" as you suggest. I've merely been revolutionizing myself so as to be as independent as possible of the corrupt, poisonous systems of America.
This will be a great advantage to me when the systems around us begin to crumble.
There are LOTS of people who can see where things are headed and have begun to prepare. For those of you who think this is all crazy talk, remember that when the shit hits the fan and you're looking to people like Deva or myself for understanding or to rely on for survival.

When the bewildered herd are losing their minds because they can't watch Dancing With the Stars, or go buy a Coke or a Budweiser, they'll be turning to the "paranoid" for help and comfort.

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:39 am

deva wrote:
adventurepants_ wrote: i grasped your point, i simply dont agree with it. It sounds like all the complaining I hear about the government by other people who cant be bothered to work to change any of it.
Plenty of people work very hard and also happen to offer criticism of the status quo. Lumping everyone in a category of your own making so that you can dismiss them is manipulative bullshit.

ummm... deva that advice applies to you as well. I read your posts as "everything sucks" which is why I can't relate to your posts, very broad sweeping, always negative.

my $0.02, I'm not like you with the politics, I'm here for the audio.

forge · Post by **forge** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:50 am

another interesting point: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122325757745406687.html

Landwhale · Post by **Landwhale** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:53 am

What WOULD be nice to see, as far as the possibility of ACTUAL change is concerned, would be to see the people of this country, and the world for that matter, stand up together as a force and PHYSICALLY remove the corruption from our respective countries.

Instead of protesting with signs that say silly things like "BUSH OUT NOW", while standing like a sad, angry bunch of chickens in a coop (free speech zones), being incredibly COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE to any kind of movement, how about the people come together and storm the goddamn conventions, remove these kings from their thrones, and put them on trial in a real "people's court"?

Let them pay for their own mistakes, let them bear the burden of their lifestyles instead of the mass population of poor and middle class people worldwide?
Tell me, WHAT good reason is there for the overwhelming majority of the world to allow themselves to act as a pedestal for the incredibly weathy minority?
And please, spare the knee-jerk bullshit about poor people being lazy or whiny or less intelligent, I don't want to hear your conjured up images of "welfare queens", or any other nonsense, nor something to the affect of "that's how it's always been, or that's just human nature, survival of the fittest, etc."
I'd be very interested in hearing a real, detailed answer.
Thanks in advance.

adventurepants_ · Post by **adventurepants_** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:18 am

Landwhale wrote:
i grasped your point, i simply dont agree with it. It sounds like all the complaining I hear about the government by other people who cant be bothered to work to change any of it.
Well done sir. Out of curiosity, what do you suggest "us people who can't be bothered to change anything" do? I suppose a vote for Obama will solve our problems?
What bold steps have you taken to change your lifestyle that you can offer as suggestions for us whiny in-subordinates?
In the future, it might be wise to know a bit about the person you're talking to before you offer up a weak ass challenge like the horseshit that just dribbled from your mouth(fingers).

While I'm willing to bet you've done not a goddamn thing to change yours , I've done quite a bit over the last 10 years to change mine.
I do a pretty damn good job of NOT purchasing products from corrupt companies, so as not to support corporations and industries that are detrimental to local economies and/or our environment. I don't make quite enough money to eat strictly organic meats, fruits and vegetables, I'm about 70% there, and I buy locally produced as often as possible.
I don't support the fast food industry, the cable television industry, the pharmaceutical drug industry, etc.
On the rare occasion I buy "new" clothes, they're almost always 2nd hand, I don't drink and smoke myself into a stupor every weekend (though of course I have a drink now and then), nor do I dose myself up with TV every night, in fact, I haven't owned a television of my own in 5 years.

Also, I've removed myself from the corporate slave world, I was a freelance audio engineer for a few years, and now I work for a non-profit organization teaching guitar, supervising 20 schools, currently writing a guitar instruction book for children, and a shit ton of computer work for the company.

I drive as little as I can get away with, though unfortunately the supervising DOES require me to drive a lot more than I'd like. That being said, I'm setting up the teacher's I supervise with Skype and webcams so that I can make as little trips as possible. While we're on computers, I also use very little paper nowadays.

I could go on and on here, but there's no need to continue to toot my own horn here, since I'm sure that's what half of you are thinking. The fact is, NONE of what I've mentioned will do one fucking thing to "change the government" as you suggest. I've merely been revolutionizing myself so as to be as independent as possible of the corrupt, poisonous systems of America.
This will be a great advantage to me when the systems around us begin to crumble.
There are LOTS of people who can see where things are headed and have begun to prepare. For those of you who think this is all crazy talk, remember that when the shit hits the fan and you're looking to people like Deva or myself for understanding or to rely on for survival.

When the bewildered herd are losing their minds because they can't watch Dancing With the Stars, or go buy a Coke or a Budweiser, they'll be turning to the "paranoid" for help and comfort.

what does any of that have to do with your original spiel about your traffic fine? what have YOU done to agitate against the hateful, watchful eye of the toll road nexus of the Illuminati? It seems to me you didnt care that much about the watchful eye of the toll roads until you got a fine.

By your very words, youre not interested in revolutionising society, you cant wait for it to collapse so you and Deva can feel smug.

Oh and by the way, getting het up about politics topics on an audio forum is every bit as retarded as watching Dancing with the Stars on TV, dont kid yourself.