Democracy still works. Bill a no go

[deva]

Alright you dumb fuck, let's play.

I guess the jig is up, I haven't done ONE thing yet to fight the power against the ExpressWay Authority, other than my Oh So rebellious running of the tolls. Somehow I doubt that after investing all the money into the technology to run their system, as well as the amount of profit they make from it, that diplomacy will get very far with this organization. I don't know though, maybe I'm going out on a limb here?

So the only REAL way I could potentially fight this particular system would be to physically dismantle it, which, much as I'd LOVE to, is obviously completely unrealistic. If only I could nail that whole omnipresence thing, shucks.

His argument is manipulative and not sincere.

Lots of people have been working to effect change. Many of them face severe state repression. One thing I have learned well out in the streets, it does not matter whether you act in a 'legal' manner or an 'illegal' manner. The only measure of how much state repression you face is whether you are effective. Start to be effective, and the FBI will be on your ass. Just like the FBI bombed Judi Bari's car.

I do understand that people who do not undertake such work and see these things firsthand mostly just do not believe it is possible. They still have images of 'land of the free and home of the brave' coloring their perceptions.

There is a deep denial in the US. Many people do not want to face the truth. But spend some years doing serious social and environmental justice work and the truth gets rubbed in your face as the pepper spray is burning in your eyes.

I think the problem with standing up to the system is the fact that i would see no point in getting hurt/arrested/killed for a bunch of self obsessed people who think your the enemy anyway. I have no wish to stand up against this tyrannical system, instead i choose to live outside it as much as possible. if they day comes when they want to insert and chip in me i will disappear off the radar and live in my yurt.

A Revolution doesn't come until there is a mass wakeup where people start questioning what is going on and listening to the fringe/conspiracy theorists. This is unlikely to happen in our society as our owners know this all to well. They lead us down a path through incrementalism trying to wake up as few as people as possible. That is why although we are going to go through a bad recession , it will only be as bad as they think we can take. no storm troopers on the streets and no mass die off of population. It will be controlled and incremental, and thats why conspiracy theorists will never have any proof for their theorys.

I do not believe the whole thing is as controlled as you suggest here. Could be you are right, but I don't think so.

As for opposing the system, people do that for many reasons. Some dream of revolution, other simply want to protect a forest they grew up next to, or a neighborhood they grew up in. I started doing such work because I love the wild places and ancient forests and I realized I could not do nothing. It had not to do with revolution, or lofty ideals as such.

And I understand your choice of living outside the system as much as possible.

[Emissary]

His argument is manipulative and not sincere.

Lots of people have been working to effect change. Many of them face severe state repression. One thing I have learned well out in the streets, it does not matter whether you act in a 'legal' manner or an 'illegal' manner. The only measure of how much state repression you face is whether you are effective. Start to be effective, and the FBI will be on your ass. Just like the FBI bombed Judi Bari's car.

I do understand that people who do not undertake such work and see these things firsthand mostly just do not believe it is possible. They still have images of 'land of the free and home of the brave' coloring their perceptions.

There is a deep denial in the US. Many people do not want to face the truth. But spend some years doing serious social and environmental justice work and the truth gets rubbed in your face as the pepper spray is burning in your eyes.

I think the problem with standing up to the system is the fact that i would see no point in getting hurt/arrested/killed for a bunch of self obsessed people who think your the enemy anyway. I have no wish to stand up against this tyrannical system, instead i choose to live outside it as much as possible. if they day comes when they want to insert and chip in me i will disappear off the radar and live in my yurt.

A Revolution doesn't come until there is a mass wakeup where people start questioning what is going on and listening to the fringe/conspiracy theorists. This is unlikely to happen in our society as our owners know this all to well. They lead us down a path through incrementalism trying to wake up as few as people as possible. That is why although we are going to go through a bad recession , it will only be as bad as they think we can take. no storm troopers on the streets and no mass die off of population. It will be controlled and incremental, and thats why conspiracy theorists will never have any proof for their theorys.

I do not believe the whole thing is as controlled as you suggest here. Could be you are right, but I don't think so.

As for opposing the system, people do that for many reasons. Some dream of revolution, other simply want to protect a forest they grew up next to, or a neighborhood they grew up in. I started doing such work because I love the wild places and ancient forests and I realized I could not do nothing. It had not to do with revolution, or lofty ideals as such.

And I understand your choice of living outside the system as much as possible.

dont get me wrong , if their were people around me that were open to the idea of standing up against all this i would stand with them. But i am not going to stand alone and be beaten up by the dickheads for the dickheads. I oppose the system in my own way through non compliance as much as i can.

I do hope some major event happens that galvanizes the world into doing something. I just think the NWO are too clever to let such an event happen. i hope your right and something big does go down, but i have my doubts.

[NorthernMonkey]

I oppose the system in my own way through non compliance as much as i can.

What do you do to achieve this?

As for the economy, it would be interesting to see what the situation was like if everyone stopped panicking and the media stopped throwing even more shit at the fan.

[ethios4]

I was talking with my friend who runs his own investment company about the bailout. He thought it was a bad idea, and the right thing to do is simply to create a market for the debts so that the market could naturally determine price...something to that effect. Thoughts?

[NorthernMonkey]

I was talking with my friend who runs his own investment company about the bailout. He thought it was a bad idea, and the right thing to do is simply to create a market for the debts so that the market could naturally determine price...something to that effect. Thoughts?

The bad debts are part of many financial institutions assets, and the idea of the US (and impending UK) bailout(s) is to purchase and effectively relieve the institutions of those debts with the intention of increasing market liquidity. Without the bailout(s) what difference would creating a new market for those debts make? This isn't about trading (even though many on here are constantly bleating on about stock indexes that aren't even directly related to equity!), it's about the lack of credit, i.e. the money markets have ground to a halt.

[deva]

AIG execs went on $500K retreat within days of taxpayer bailout
http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/20 ... -went.html

Dow down approx 1300 since the 'bailout' passed... Can we please cancel it and admit it was a stupid idea to give billions to Paulson's cronies?

[adventurepants_]

I was talking with my friend who runs his own investment company about the bailout. He thought it was a bad idea, and the right thing to do is simply to create a market for the debts so that the market could naturally determine price...something to that effect. Thoughts?

theres a book released recently (cant remember the name) theyve been talking about on the politics podcasts. It says that government intervention actually prolonged and deepened the Depression, and that the bailout now will do something similar.

[deva]

Quote from this article...
http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... e20964.htm

I like Kucinich

“This was the largest single act of class warfare in the modern history of this country,” Rep. Dennis Kucinich, D-Ohio, who led the fight in the House against the bailout, told me by phone from Cleveland. “It is a direct attack on the American people’s ability to be able to stabilize their homes and their neighborhoods. This single vote will define the careers of everyone. We are back to taxation without representation, to markets that are openly rigged.”

“We buried the New Deal,” he said of the vote. “Instead of Democrats going back to classic New Deal economics where we prime the pump of the economy and start money circulating among the population through saving homes, creating jobs and building a new infrastructure, our leaders chose to accelerate the wealth of the nation upwards. They did so in a way that was destructive of free-market principles. They ripped away all the familiar moorings. We are in an uncharted sea where the traditional roles of the political parties are being switched. The Democrats have unfortunately become so enamored and beholden to Wall Street that we are not functioning to defend the economic interest of the broad base of the American people. It was up to the Republicans to protect not just a so-called free market but the American taxpayer and attempt to block this. This is an outrage. This was democracy’s Black Friday.”

[NorthernMonkey]

Dow down approx 1300 since the 'bailout' passed... Can we please cancel it and admit it was a stupid idea to give billions to Paulson's cronies?

Your argument might carry more weight if any of the money from the bailout had actually been invested. As of yet the total invested is approximately $0. But what the hell, carry on ranting.

[OvertoneZero]

It's good to know that there are plenty of fucking idiots living outside the USA as well.

[deva]

Dow down approx 1300 since the 'bailout' passed... Can we please cancel it and admit it was a stupid idea to give billions to Paulson's cronies?

Your argument might carry more weight if any of the money from the bailout had actually been invested. As of yet the total invested is approximately $0. But what the hell, carry on ranting.

hehehe... okay...

Dow is now down 1400 since the bill passed... nothing but down... I'd say that this shows that there is not much optimism that the bill will be helpful... That bill will cause more harm than good. By the time those fools will admit it, all the resources that could have been used to do something actually helpful will have been wasted.

[deva]

It's good to know that there are plenty of fucking idiots living outside the USA as well.

Truly, the US has no monopoly on idiocy. However, I do think DC may well have one of the highest percentages of all time! hehehe

[NorthernMonkey]

By the time those fools will admit it, all the resources that could have been used to do something actually helpful will have been wasted.

Such as?

[Moody]

Funny Money, got to love it!

[deva]

By the time those fools will admit it, all the resources that could have been used to do something actually helpful will have been wasted.

Such as?

The Fed HAD a lot of money... which it has thrown (see: wasted) at banks and done nothing to help the real economy.

Now the Fed can only print money which will destroy the dollar. (Not that I believe they actually have the interests of the country at heart.)

btw...

"The Prime Minister of Thailand was forced to scale a fence and flee in a police helicopter yesterday as thousands of protesters barricaded parliament in the latest twist in the country's seething political turmoil."

Ha! Would be great to see Bush trying to scale a fence to get away from the angry crowd of US citizens!