Democracy still works. Bill a no go
-
OvertoneZero
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:16 pm
I don't really know enough about it to predict how good of an investment it will be. I think of it more as a hedge. You would think that logically if inflation was high, gold would become more valuable. But it hasn't kept pace with inflation over the last ten years. And further, with so many currency interdependencies, we could see more deflation than inflation in the near-term. If / when the US national debt becomes unserviceable and the dollar is demonetized, gold will retain some value.
Some more info:
http://seekingalpha.com/article/58218-a ... rice-chart
Some more info:
http://seekingalpha.com/article/58218-a ... rice-chart
-
NorthernMonkey
- Posts: 1098
- Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:05 pm
- Location: UK
I'm a door-to-door vacuum cleaner salesman. Why, what's your job?OvertoneZero wrote:NorthernMonkey wrote:OvertoneZero wrote:20% of your cash in gold
20% under your mattress
20% in the bank
10% buy stocks with a future like LDK
10% save for buying more undervalued stock within the next 6 months
20% spend it now on physical assets such as guitars, car, guns, food, etc
Have as little debt as possible. Stay light and mobile..WTF?
What is your job?
..?
-
NorthernMonkey
- Posts: 1098
- Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:05 pm
- Location: UK
Several of us already recognise this.deva wrote:I don't think much can be done to improve the situation in the sense that it is going to get better right away. What is happening is the result of actions over some time and is now inevitable. What we can do is recognize this and do what we can.
You'd pay your neighbour's mortgage?The first thing I would do is cancel the bailout bill and use that money to help homeowners from being foreclosed. Most people feel like the bailout bill will not help them (and they are right) and they feel like they are on their own and they are panicking. That action would let people know that the government is actually doing something to assist them and they will not feel the pressure of being homeless soon.
That's happening as we speak.Second, re-regulate the financial industry to stop the practices that brought this about. (See Glass-Steagall Act as one example)
Putting your hatred of financial markets to one side, how can you shore up banks and other financial institutions (and thus increase liquidity) without relieving them of their bad assets? The answer is you can't.Third, do something to shore up the banks. I read someone suggesting insuring all deposits without limit as a way to stop the slow motion bank run that is happening. Also another suggestion to buy some stake in the institution on behalf of taxpayers. A kind of partial and temporary nationalization that would return something to the taxpayer. That also seems much more responsible to taxpayers money that just giving it away to wall street.
Last edited by NorthernMonkey on Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
..?
-
OvertoneZero
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:16 pm
-
NorthernMonkey
- Posts: 1098
- Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:05 pm
- Location: UK
-
OvertoneZero
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:16 pm
what skill set do you bring to this discussion to be giving out so much advice on the current situation?OvertoneZero wrote:Must be niceNorthernMonkey wrote: I've somehow managed to land the job I was hoping to get at one of the most successful hedge fund companies in London - the relief is enormous given the current situation with the big investment banks.
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz
Thousands of Troops Are Deployed on U.S. Streets Ready to Carry Out "Crowd Control"
Members of Congress were told they could face martial law if they didn't pass the bailout bill. This will not be the last time.
By Naomi Wolf
08/10/08 "AlterNet" -- Background: the First Brigade of the Third Infantry Division, three to four thousand soldiers, has been deployed in the United States as of October 1. Their stated mission is the form of crowd control they practiced in Iraq, subduing "unruly individuals," and the management of a national emergency. I am in Seattle and heard from the brother of one of the soldiers that they are engaged in exercises now. Amy Goodman reported that an Army spokesperson confirmed that they will have access to lethal and non lethal crowd control technologies and tanks.
George Bush struck down Posse Comitatus, thus making it legal for military to patrol the U.S. He has also legally established that in the "War on Terror," the U.S. is at war around the globe and thus the whole world is a battlefield. Thus the U.S. is also a battlefield.
He also led change to the 1807 Insurrection Act to give him far broader powers in the event of a loosely defined "insurrection" or many other "conditions" he has the power to identify. The Constitution allows the suspension of habeas corpus -- habeas corpus prevents us from being seized by the state and held without trial -- in the event of an "insurrection." With his own army force now, his power to call a group of protesters or angry voters "insurgents" staging an "insurrection" is strengthened.
U.S. Rep. Brad Sherman of California said to Congress, captured on C-Span and viewable on YouTube, that individual members of the House were threatened with martial law within a week if they did not pass the bailout bill:
"The only way they can pass this bill is by creating and sustaining a panic atmosphere. … Many of us were told in private conversations that if we voted against this bill on Monday that the sky would fall, the market would drop two or three thousand points the first day and a couple of thousand on the second day, and a few members were even told that there would be martial law in America if we voted no."
If this is true and Rep. Sherman is not delusional, I ask you to consider that if they are willing to threaten martial law now, it is foolish to assume they will never use that threat again. It is also foolish to trust in an orderly election process to resolve this threat. And why deploy the First Brigade? One thing the deployment accomplishes is to put teeth into such a threat.
I interviewed Vietnam veteran, retired U.S. Air Force Colonel and patriot David Antoon for clarification:
"If the President directed the First Brigade to arrest Congress, what could stop him?"
"Nothing. Their only recourse is to cut off funding. The Congress would be at the mercy of military leaders to go to them and ask them not to obey illegal orders."
"But these orders are now legal?'"
"Correct."
"If the President directs the First Brigade to arrest a bunch of voters, what would stop him?"
"Nothing. It would end up in courts but the action would have been taken."
"If the President directs the First Brigade to kill civilians, what would stop him?"
"Nothing."
"What would prevent him from sending the First Brigade to arrest the editor of the Washington Post?"
"Nothing. He could do what he did in Iraq -- send a tank down a street in Washington and fire a shell into the Washington Post as they did into Al Jazeera, and claim they were firing at something else."
"What happens to members of the First Brigade who refuse to take up arms against U.S. citizens?"
"They'd probably be treated as deserters as in Iraq: arrested, detained and facing five years in prison. In Iraq a study by Ann Wright shows that deserters -- reservists who refused to go back to Iraq -- got longer sentences than war criminals."
"Does Congress have any military of their own?"
"No. Congress has no direct control of any military units. The Governors have the National Guard but they report to the President in an emergency that he declares."
"Who can arrest the President?"
"The Attorney General can arrest the President after he leaves or after impeachment."
[Note: Prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi has asserted it is possible for District Attorneys around the country to charge President Bush with murder if they represent districts where one or more military members who have been killed in Iraq formerly resided.]
"Given the danger do you advocate impeachment?"
"Yes. President Bush struck down Posse Comitatus -- which has prevented, with a penalty of two years in prison, U.S. leaders since after the Civil War from sending military forces into our streets -- with a 'signing statement.' He should be impeached immediately in a bipartisan process to prevent the use of military forces and mercenary forces against U.S. citizens"
"Should Americans call on senior leaders in the Military to break publicly with this action and call on their own men and women to disobey these orders?"
"Every senior military officer's loyalty should ultimately be to the Constitution. Every officer should publicly break with any illegal order, even from the President."
"But if these are now legal. If they say, 'Don't obey the Commander in Chief,' what happens to the military?"
"Perhaps they would be arrested and prosecuted as those who refuse to participate in the current illegal war. That's what would be considered a coup."
"But it's a coup already."
"Yes."
Members of Congress were told they could face martial law if they didn't pass the bailout bill. This will not be the last time.
By Naomi Wolf
08/10/08 "AlterNet" -- Background: the First Brigade of the Third Infantry Division, three to four thousand soldiers, has been deployed in the United States as of October 1. Their stated mission is the form of crowd control they practiced in Iraq, subduing "unruly individuals," and the management of a national emergency. I am in Seattle and heard from the brother of one of the soldiers that they are engaged in exercises now. Amy Goodman reported that an Army spokesperson confirmed that they will have access to lethal and non lethal crowd control technologies and tanks.
George Bush struck down Posse Comitatus, thus making it legal for military to patrol the U.S. He has also legally established that in the "War on Terror," the U.S. is at war around the globe and thus the whole world is a battlefield. Thus the U.S. is also a battlefield.
He also led change to the 1807 Insurrection Act to give him far broader powers in the event of a loosely defined "insurrection" or many other "conditions" he has the power to identify. The Constitution allows the suspension of habeas corpus -- habeas corpus prevents us from being seized by the state and held without trial -- in the event of an "insurrection." With his own army force now, his power to call a group of protesters or angry voters "insurgents" staging an "insurrection" is strengthened.
U.S. Rep. Brad Sherman of California said to Congress, captured on C-Span and viewable on YouTube, that individual members of the House were threatened with martial law within a week if they did not pass the bailout bill:
"The only way they can pass this bill is by creating and sustaining a panic atmosphere. … Many of us were told in private conversations that if we voted against this bill on Monday that the sky would fall, the market would drop two or three thousand points the first day and a couple of thousand on the second day, and a few members were even told that there would be martial law in America if we voted no."
If this is true and Rep. Sherman is not delusional, I ask you to consider that if they are willing to threaten martial law now, it is foolish to assume they will never use that threat again. It is also foolish to trust in an orderly election process to resolve this threat. And why deploy the First Brigade? One thing the deployment accomplishes is to put teeth into such a threat.
I interviewed Vietnam veteran, retired U.S. Air Force Colonel and patriot David Antoon for clarification:
"If the President directed the First Brigade to arrest Congress, what could stop him?"
"Nothing. Their only recourse is to cut off funding. The Congress would be at the mercy of military leaders to go to them and ask them not to obey illegal orders."
"But these orders are now legal?'"
"Correct."
"If the President directs the First Brigade to arrest a bunch of voters, what would stop him?"
"Nothing. It would end up in courts but the action would have been taken."
"If the President directs the First Brigade to kill civilians, what would stop him?"
"Nothing."
"What would prevent him from sending the First Brigade to arrest the editor of the Washington Post?"
"Nothing. He could do what he did in Iraq -- send a tank down a street in Washington and fire a shell into the Washington Post as they did into Al Jazeera, and claim they were firing at something else."
"What happens to members of the First Brigade who refuse to take up arms against U.S. citizens?"
"They'd probably be treated as deserters as in Iraq: arrested, detained and facing five years in prison. In Iraq a study by Ann Wright shows that deserters -- reservists who refused to go back to Iraq -- got longer sentences than war criminals."
"Does Congress have any military of their own?"
"No. Congress has no direct control of any military units. The Governors have the National Guard but they report to the President in an emergency that he declares."
"Who can arrest the President?"
"The Attorney General can arrest the President after he leaves or after impeachment."
[Note: Prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi has asserted it is possible for District Attorneys around the country to charge President Bush with murder if they represent districts where one or more military members who have been killed in Iraq formerly resided.]
"Given the danger do you advocate impeachment?"
"Yes. President Bush struck down Posse Comitatus -- which has prevented, with a penalty of two years in prison, U.S. leaders since after the Civil War from sending military forces into our streets -- with a 'signing statement.' He should be impeached immediately in a bipartisan process to prevent the use of military forces and mercenary forces against U.S. citizens"
"Should Americans call on senior leaders in the Military to break publicly with this action and call on their own men and women to disobey these orders?"
"Every senior military officer's loyalty should ultimately be to the Constitution. Every officer should publicly break with any illegal order, even from the President."
"But if these are now legal. If they say, 'Don't obey the Commander in Chief,' what happens to the military?"
"Perhaps they would be arrested and prosecuted as those who refuse to participate in the current illegal war. That's what would be considered a coup."
"But it's a coup already."
"Yes."
-
OvertoneZero
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:16 pm
wow. you should read the sticky at the top of the forum.OvertoneZero wrote:What are you BFF with NorthernMonkey? He's the biggest fucking twat on this forum and you're running a close second. Stay out of my face, internet hero.Tone Deft wrote: what skill set do you bring to this discussion to be giving out so much advice on the current situation?
whatever judgment you want to make about the guy he's trained in this particular area. it's a world wide forum, you never know what resources can be tapped by asking the right person the right question, it's pretty amazing who you might run into. you should be asking him questions, and lose the attitude.
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz
-
NorthernMonkey
- Posts: 1098
- Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:05 pm
- Location: UK
OvertoneZero wrote:What are you BFF with NorthernMonkey? He's the biggest fucking twat on this forum and you're running a close second. Stay out of my face, internet hero.Tone Deft wrote: what skill set do you bring to this discussion to be giving out so much advice on the current situation?
You can't make a statement like that then follow it up with accusing Tone of being an 'internet hero'! There's a word for that...Anyways, you're entitled to your opinions, but when you make such bold statements about finance without backing them up with any credentials or actual knowledge and experience of finance then, as I'm sure you can appreciate, it's easy to assume you are just another internet ranting lunatic.
..?
-
OvertoneZero
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:16 pm
These hedge fund, investment banker 'listen to my advice' shitheads led us straight into this disaster hand-in-hand with the Federal government and you expect they're going to show you the way out?
We are witnessing massive-scale theft and the accountability is completely diluted. POS finance professionals have walked away with big payouts for years while companies and individuals get destroyed, all in the name of greed and power. I have no patience for professional system-gamers who tell me to trust our blatantly incompetent or corrupt leadership as they piss vast amount of my money and future earnings into the wind.
NorthernMonkey is on-board with the program and whether he thinks it's the best thing for the economy or not, he certainly thinks that it's the best thing for himself and his hedge fund buddies. After all, if there is no more market, it will be hard to pull easy money scams. Can't do much naked shorting or sell people loans when everything is already in the gutter and there is no confidence in the confidence game.
He's another program-pumper and I don't care if he's a standard-bearer, king, or pawn, in my mind that makes him an enemy of mine.
We are witnessing massive-scale theft and the accountability is completely diluted. POS finance professionals have walked away with big payouts for years while companies and individuals get destroyed, all in the name of greed and power. I have no patience for professional system-gamers who tell me to trust our blatantly incompetent or corrupt leadership as they piss vast amount of my money and future earnings into the wind.
NorthernMonkey is on-board with the program and whether he thinks it's the best thing for the economy or not, he certainly thinks that it's the best thing for himself and his hedge fund buddies. After all, if there is no more market, it will be hard to pull easy money scams. Can't do much naked shorting or sell people loans when everything is already in the gutter and there is no confidence in the confidence game.
He's another program-pumper and I don't care if he's a standard-bearer, king, or pawn, in my mind that makes him an enemy of mine.
be cool man.
Robert Henke wrote:This is a forum about music,
about music software,
and about related topics.
This is a place which is mostly unmoderated,
since we assume you are old enough to communicate
in an appropriate way. However, some of you seem to
think that being cool is based on insulting others.
It is not.
It does not matter, if you have one post or 5000+, if
you want to post here and be part of this mostly nice
and helpful community you have to respect a minimal
set of rules, as stated here:
http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34944
Thank you!
Robert
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz