Sorry for the double post, but looks like Chirac's the problem this time.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004512444,00.html
Oh, and by the way I do own apassport and travel to England and Italy some.
To say that Bush supporters don't travel abroad is foolish, after all we are the "the rich" people in America not the "poor working class". I've never met a poor person who works really hard that doesn't soon move up economically so they are no longer poor. That's why I like to volunteer in shelter's to help teach others "how to fish".http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004512444,00.html
OT: for bush supporters
Re: sorry for the double post.
fellah, in this country the SUn actually describes themselves as an 'entertainment journal' and deny being a news paper so they can say what they like and not have to be accountable. Most of it's readers buy it for the girl with her tits out on page 3 and the sports section - quoting the sun wont win you any brownie points anywhereudp wrote:Sorry for the double post, but looks like Chirac's the problem this time.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004512444,00.html
Oh, and by the way I do own apassport and travel to England and Italy some.
To say that Bush supporters don't travel abroad is foolish, after all we are the "the rich" people in America not the "poor working class". I've never met a poor person who works really hard that doesn't soon move up economically so they are no longer poor. That's why I like to volunteer in shelter's to help teach others "how to fish".http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004512444,00.html
but then wasn't clinton working WITH the UN?noisetonepause wrote:Bush = Churchill? You're having a giraffe, mate. Saddam wasn't trying to conquer the world - we used to THINK that, now we KNOW it.
First of all, I don't think that's true. Second of all, my country and yours and others are in a coalition. I like to think that we should criticise our own leaders first and make sure we've got our affairs in order before we start attacking others for being fascists or whatever...I find it interesting that people who bash Bush never bash Osama bin Laden or Sadam Hussien.
And you can be absolutely sure I wasn't supporting Clinton when he attacked Baghdad in '98, BTW
-Paws
don't know about the tits
I didn't know about the tits, sounds interesting. Still, I've found Chirac a hinderance in the healing of the rift between the US govt. and European Govts.
Re: don't know about the tits
what because he doesnt just say 'yes sir' and do what he's told??udp wrote:I didn't know about the tits, sounds interesting. Still, I've found Chirac a hinderance in the healing of the rift between the US govt. and European Govts.
Special Ed...
Do you know me man? Do you know how this war has affected my family personally? You should seriously THINK before you speak such evil words towards someone you dont even know.
After the comments you made towards me...I shouldnt even take a second to respond to you, but I will.
I'm simply stating..all these people are shocked at the horror of the war. Well, what is war supposed to look like??? Did you think it is not ugly? All wars are ugly and horrible. This isnt the first, and unfortunatly it will not be the last. Did you just open your eyesto this now?
Why is no one equally expressing outrage at the innocents being killed BY THE IRAQIS? I dont see a ton of posts condemning what those extremists are doing by beheading innocent people. They are also killing their own too. Lets see some anger towards that also.
And I said lets get back to music, because that is what this board is for. It's not for people to call other people "pieces of shit" as you called me. I said nothing against you and you come out like that.
Topics like this do NOTHING but promote negativity. All the US bashing here. Did any of you consider that there are people here who ARE FROM THE US?
I dont think any of you would take it too kindly if there were a ton of posts bashing your country.
Have any of you considered that maybe in 50 years or whenever, that people might look back on this time as a turning point in Iraq for the better? It might happen...who knows. How can you expect instant results in little over a year?
Also have ANY of you considered the fact that if Kerry had won...we'd still be in Iraq. Thats a fact.
You guys seriously act like Saddam was some innocent guy who did nothing to have this coming. He is the one you guys should be pissed at. LEading his country into war, then he hides and begs for his life, while many Iraqi's die. Why is there no outrage there? Also, where was all the outrage and caring for the Iraqi people when Saddam was torturing them for decades???? Were all of you posting about that?????
Most of you dont give a damn about the Iraqi people...its just the US you hate and this gives you an opportunity to express that.
Do you know me man? Do you know how this war has affected my family personally? You should seriously THINK before you speak such evil words towards someone you dont even know.
After the comments you made towards me...I shouldnt even take a second to respond to you, but I will.
I'm simply stating..all these people are shocked at the horror of the war. Well, what is war supposed to look like??? Did you think it is not ugly? All wars are ugly and horrible. This isnt the first, and unfortunatly it will not be the last. Did you just open your eyesto this now?
Why is no one equally expressing outrage at the innocents being killed BY THE IRAQIS? I dont see a ton of posts condemning what those extremists are doing by beheading innocent people. They are also killing their own too. Lets see some anger towards that also.
And I said lets get back to music, because that is what this board is for. It's not for people to call other people "pieces of shit" as you called me. I said nothing against you and you come out like that.
Topics like this do NOTHING but promote negativity. All the US bashing here. Did any of you consider that there are people here who ARE FROM THE US?
I dont think any of you would take it too kindly if there were a ton of posts bashing your country.
Have any of you considered that maybe in 50 years or whenever, that people might look back on this time as a turning point in Iraq for the better? It might happen...who knows. How can you expect instant results in little over a year?
Also have ANY of you considered the fact that if Kerry had won...we'd still be in Iraq. Thats a fact.
You guys seriously act like Saddam was some innocent guy who did nothing to have this coming. He is the one you guys should be pissed at. LEading his country into war, then he hides and begs for his life, while many Iraqi's die. Why is there no outrage there? Also, where was all the outrage and caring for the Iraqi people when Saddam was torturing them for decades???? Were all of you posting about that?????
Most of you dont give a damn about the Iraqi people...its just the US you hate and this gives you an opportunity to express that.
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noisetonepause
- Posts: 4938
- Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2002 3:38 pm
- Location: Sticks and stones
The responsibles for the handful of beheadings haven't been Iraqis, but foreign groups working in Iraq... and don't forget that most of the Iraqi population wants to world to help and are as disgusted by these beheadings as we all are. They're not ragheads. They're civilised, educated people...DjDEMO wrote:Why is no one equally expressing outrage at the innocents being killed BY THE IRAQIS? I dont see a ton of posts condemning what those extremists are doing by beheading innocent people. They are also killing their own too. Lets see some anger towards that also.
Well, we weren't involved with Saddam like we are involved with the Coalition... I'm Danish, Forge is British, and I even think Special Ed is American, so we all have countrymen in Iraq and live under more-or-less democratically* elected governments that decided to send troops to Iraq. As such, we have a responsibility to speak out if we think our governments are doing wrong.DjDEMO wrote:Also, where was all the outrage and caring for the Iraqi people when Saddam was torturing them for decades???? Were all of you posting about that?????
-Paws
Paws..you are right.
What I think is wrong is the way people like Special Ed express it. Promotes nothing but hate on a board built around music.
Terms like American Pig, which he used, dont show anything but hate.
If topics like this could be discussed in calm, rational ways, great...but that never happens.
People need to understand..if not for the insurgents, the Iraqi people would be in much better shape right now.
I'd like to know who these insurgents are benefitting? Surely not the majority of the Iraqi people. If not for the insurgents, you wouldnt be seeing all of the violence happening now. They are killing coalition soldiers, fellow Iraqis, and innocent peeple over there. They blow up their oil line every other day, they kill any Iraqis trying to get any kind of stability going (ie police, govt).
I find it very hard to believe that your every day Iraqi citizen supports the insurgents.
Special Ed, I dont know where you are from, but do you also get angered by when your own people are killed over there? Were you angry when they beheaded all those hostages they've been taking? You might be opposed to us having gone in there, but its no reason to condemn your own troops.
I also wish we'd get out of there...but I think everyone knows thats impossible and things would be much worse if that happened. What I think needs to happen is that more international countries get involved.
I think now that Bush has been re-elected, countries are going to realize they have to deal with him and I think that eventually all sides will get together and work things out.
Just because I'm pro-Bush, doesnt mean I'm all for war. There are a lot of other factors. Look at the stats from the election. War was far from being the one and only factor in the election.
Alot of Americans dont totally like what has been going on for 4 years, but it was obvious that Kerry was not the answer.
What I think is wrong is the way people like Special Ed express it. Promotes nothing but hate on a board built around music.
Terms like American Pig, which he used, dont show anything but hate.
If topics like this could be discussed in calm, rational ways, great...but that never happens.
People need to understand..if not for the insurgents, the Iraqi people would be in much better shape right now.
I'd like to know who these insurgents are benefitting? Surely not the majority of the Iraqi people. If not for the insurgents, you wouldnt be seeing all of the violence happening now. They are killing coalition soldiers, fellow Iraqis, and innocent peeple over there. They blow up their oil line every other day, they kill any Iraqis trying to get any kind of stability going (ie police, govt).
I find it very hard to believe that your every day Iraqi citizen supports the insurgents.
Special Ed, I dont know where you are from, but do you also get angered by when your own people are killed over there? Were you angry when they beheaded all those hostages they've been taking? You might be opposed to us having gone in there, but its no reason to condemn your own troops.
I also wish we'd get out of there...but I think everyone knows thats impossible and things would be much worse if that happened. What I think needs to happen is that more international countries get involved.
I think now that Bush has been re-elected, countries are going to realize they have to deal with him and I think that eventually all sides will get together and work things out.
Just because I'm pro-Bush, doesnt mean I'm all for war. There are a lot of other factors. Look at the stats from the election. War was far from being the one and only factor in the election.
Alot of Americans dont totally like what has been going on for 4 years, but it was obvious that Kerry was not the answer.
I'm with DJDEmo on this one. Bush's hand was forced when France decided to veto the last ultimatum from the UN before the security council could vote on it. What I meant about Chirac is the fact that France and Germany and Russia were all getting kick-backs on the oil for food program, so ofcourse they didn't want the US to end that. There is even evidence that the Secretary General's son was making money off the deal. If France and Germany and Russia had voted for the ultimatum and backed it up, Saddam likely would have cooperated fully with inspections and we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. France also armed Saddams army during the war. With friends like that who needs enemies. I wish it all hadn't played out that way , because I to have friends in Iraq, fortunately none of them have been killed. So appeasment and turning a blind eye to Saddam got us here now someone has to clean the mess, Bush decided to take on that huge task. Feels an awful lot like WW 2 to me. I don't mean to sound offensive, but it's how I feel about it.
yo djdemo!
what makes u think that USA has a rights to "offer a civil rights" to Iraq?
U think USA is the only country with perfect justice?
Throughout the history, almost all countries has been gone through "dark period" and it is upto them to fix it. U got it? It is their responsibility!!
And please don't tell us that we only have a pity for dead iraq people. Sure, we have a sympathy for all the victims of this war. But BUSH IS THE ONE WHO STARTED... if not, there would be no this mass holocaust.
I am certainly not anti-american, but people like U JUST PISS ME OFF!
WHAT IS NEXT? N.KOREA?
Haven't you ever thought that BUSH MAY BE JUST USING YOUR COUNTRY TO PUT HIS NAME IN THE HISTORY?
what makes u think that USA has a rights to "offer a civil rights" to Iraq?
U think USA is the only country with perfect justice?
Throughout the history, almost all countries has been gone through "dark period" and it is upto them to fix it. U got it? It is their responsibility!!
And please don't tell us that we only have a pity for dead iraq people. Sure, we have a sympathy for all the victims of this war. But BUSH IS THE ONE WHO STARTED... if not, there would be no this mass holocaust.
I am certainly not anti-american, but people like U JUST PISS ME OFF!
WHAT IS NEXT? N.KOREA?
Haven't you ever thought that BUSH MAY BE JUST USING YOUR COUNTRY TO PUT HIS NAME IN THE HISTORY?
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special ed
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 9:52 am
- Location: the outer heavens
lets see. do i feel sorry for the troops getting killed? not anymore sympathy that i would have for a theiving murder rapist breaking into someones house to assault them, but they themselves end up dead. do i feel sorry for that fat bastard paul johnson that got beheaded? he worked for lockheed martin, one of the weapons makers that are cashing in on the war. i cant have anymore sympathy for him than i would for a crack manufactuer that od's and dies on his own supply. some of hostages i dont know about, like the british lady thats a caretaker, she should be set free. condemn my own troops? i dont rape pilage and murder like them, they are not my people, they are not "protecting" my "freedom". i hope they all fall upon their own swords. with all the families they have destroyed, they dont deserve to come back to be with theirs. its called karma, or the cosmic boomerang.Special Ed, I dont know where you are from, but do you also get angered by when your own people are killed over there? Were you angry when they beheaded all those hostages they've been taking? You might be opposed to us having gone in there, but its no reason to condemn your own troops.
as for you huey, im glad your happy with your decision, its nice that you and your family can sit there and live that american dream. while you hope to see your children off to school and bigger and better things in life, and to grow old with your wife. its a great thing. its too bad it had to come at the expense of a nation being slaughtered. but you dont know them, so fuck 'em. right? god bless america. do you got the bumper sticker? im sure you do. you probably got the one that says "4 more years" as well. and the "support our troops" one. as they are protecting your financial investments. life is so beautiful aint it. say hi to the wife and children for me.
Special Ed you are a most excellent cynic. There are the just and the unjust in this world, the just are so busy going about their business that they go un-noticed - the ones who have to preach are too close to the unjust to make their cause worthwhile - the most righteous is the genuine and the genuine is not interested in nationalism, religion, our outward appearance because the satisfaction is in the justice itself.special ed wrote:lets see. do i feel sorry for the troops getting killed? not anymore sympathy that i would have for a theiving murder rapist breaking into someones house to assault them, but they themselves end up dead. do i feel sorry for that fat bastard paul johnson that got beheaded? he worked for lockheed martin, one of the weapons makers that are cashing in on the war. i cant have anymore sympathy for him than i would for a crack manufactuer that od's and dies on his own supply. some of hostages i dont know about, like the british lady thats a caretaker, she should be set free. condemn my own troops? i dont rape pilage and murder like them, they are not my people, they are not "protecting" my "freedom". i hope they all fall upon their own swords. with all the families they have destroyed, they dont deserve to come back to be with theirs. its called karma, or the cosmic boomerang.Special Ed, I dont know where you are from, but do you also get angered by when your own people are killed over there? Were you angry when they beheaded all those hostages they've been taking? You might be opposed to us having gone in there, but its no reason to condemn your own troops.
as for you huey, im glad your happy with your decision, its nice that you and your family can sit there and live that american dream. while you hope to see your children off to school and bigger and better things in life, and to grow old with your wife. its a great thing. its too bad it had to come at the expense of a nation being slaughtered. but you dont know them, so fuck 'em. right? god bless america. do you got the bumper sticker? im sure you do. you probably got the one that says "4 more years" as well. and the "support our troops" one. as they are protecting your financial investments. life is so beautiful aint it. say hi to the wife and children for me.
Hows that for a bit of dogma
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special ed
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 9:52 am
- Location: the outer heavens
you know forge, i really dont know how it is i even have the energy to respond to these bushvotes. as you can probably tell from your own experience of trying to communicate with them, they dont get it. they dont want to get it either, which to me is worse. you can see how these "things" (im having a hard time calling them people, because they seem to be lacking the empathy and human soul that is required to be human) are like programmed robots. the only thing human in them is there vile nature. im glad to know that there are still people like you left in the world, because it tells me that there is still intelligence left here on earth. i know ive spoken alot of violence and hate here, but im really that offended by whats going on. its not even my nature to be so vile towards people. i love and accept anyone from any background, as long as they live for whats true and are looking to grow as people. its just really hard to find that in the states nowdays, i dont know about the rest of the world yet. i do know this, i got to get the fuck out of america. its over for me. closed chapter. the people here with human dignity want out to im sure. but the rest of it is shite. half the country approves of bush, what more is there to say about it. america is not going to change for the better. i guess im kicking a dead horse arguing with these zombies.
Special Ed...
Who are you say YOUR opinion is above everyone else's? I support Bush for other reasons than the war...I've said that numerous times. So why condemn me for that? I can see you disagreeing with Bush supporters, but to HATE them? Thats crazy. And please answer this. What were your thoughts on Saddam and how he treated his own people? Also, what did you think of Clinton when he didnt do anything in Rwanda? I just want to see where your thinking is at. If its consistent, or if its based more on just hating Bush.
And how can anyone who cares about humanity not condemn the beheadings etc? Some of those people over there are honestly trying to do good...to try and help rebuild Iraq. What about them?
Special Ed, I dont think the insurgents represent the rest of the Iraqi people. They are only hurting themselves with their actions.
Whether or not the US went in to actually liberate the Iraqis I can see how you dont buy it...but dont you think it may prove one day to be the point where they at least got freedom? One day...not yet obviously.
While you dont agree with me..please just try to agree to disagree man..no need to say what you say to me.
Who are you say YOUR opinion is above everyone else's? I support Bush for other reasons than the war...I've said that numerous times. So why condemn me for that? I can see you disagreeing with Bush supporters, but to HATE them? Thats crazy. And please answer this. What were your thoughts on Saddam and how he treated his own people? Also, what did you think of Clinton when he didnt do anything in Rwanda? I just want to see where your thinking is at. If its consistent, or if its based more on just hating Bush.
And how can anyone who cares about humanity not condemn the beheadings etc? Some of those people over there are honestly trying to do good...to try and help rebuild Iraq. What about them?
Special Ed, I dont think the insurgents represent the rest of the Iraqi people. They are only hurting themselves with their actions.
Whether or not the US went in to actually liberate the Iraqis I can see how you dont buy it...but dont you think it may prove one day to be the point where they at least got freedom? One day...not yet obviously.
While you dont agree with me..please just try to agree to disagree man..no need to say what you say to me.
darcyb wrote:Pax, antidepressant use is a natural outcome of a culture that is beginning to really have go into denial to keep living "happily" considering what elections/world events are going on. And considering the trend of people to spend more and more time reflecting on who they are, and explore how they can manage their OWN health isntead of cultivating a hypochondriac'ish dependence on health care (which is hardly affordable anyway), pharmaceutical companies have to push back for job security. So, the DSM keeps getting edited with new cosmetic illnesses, pharmaceutical repackage old shelved products to meet them (Paxil was purchased in the mid 1970s), dollars are poured into marketing (pharmcos spend more on advertising than any other industry) and doctors keep people on drugs with severe withdrawal symptoms to keep earning 'per consultation' fees.
I'm biased of course, being the founder of a non profit that rescues people from all that jazz, but the books are out there regardless of my personal advocacy: Let them eat Prozac Healy, Medicines out of control? - Hardon & Medawar, Prozac Backlash - Glenmullen.
and check this you all.....QUESTION EVERYTHING........PASS IT ON....
MacBook Pro M1, 16GB Ram, 1TB.