what do you *actually* expect in Live 8?

aisling · Post by **aisling** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:43 pm

Not that it can't be done as is, but a little sample editor app could be cool.

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:37 pm

I expect a thing that I didn't expect to be in there

Homebelly · Post by **Homebelly** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:49 pm

Angstrom wrote:I expect a thing that I didn't expect to be in there

How can you expect some thing you can't expect???

But then again,, i expect you expected me to say that, and so i expect you have a quick and witty response to fulfill all of my expectations in this regard..

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:16 am

how can I expect something I don't expect?
I'll explain with this Venn diagram

I expect something from the blue part of the diagram

this diagram is not to scale BTW. The 'do not expect' category needs to be at least three times bigger than this

Homebelly · Post by **Homebelly** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:14 am

Some times the expectations of the few out way the needs of the many

Your circle diagram could also represent shit that happens, and shit i get blamed for when it happens...

forge · Post by **forge** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:24 am

Angstrom wrote: I expect something from the blue part of the diagram

this diagram is not to scale BTW. The 'do not expect' category needs to be at least three times bigger than this

there is almost always something I really don't expect, so a +1 there

Homebelly wrote:Some times the expectations of the few out way the needs of the many

Your circle diagram could also represent shit that happens, and shit i get blamed for when it happens...

that's because it usually IS YOUR FAULT!

forge · Post by **forge** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:37 am

STRATEGY_510 wrote:
Johnisfaster wrote:
forge wrote: he means in arrange view
my bad
My crossfader works in Arrange view, even though I can't see it.

STRATEGY

this kind of cross-fade:

nathannn · Post by **nathannn** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:48 am

forge wrote:
Martyn wrote: I really don't get why there's such a schizm regarding the Session view/arrangement view relationship, I always thought that the overall work-flow was a very clear one. First build up some form of performance setup in session, hit the record button then go for the performance of your life, including all the automation you managed to do with your controller hardware. You then hop over to the arrange page where the results of your performance await you, mistakes and all. Next, you can do another take if you want or simply remain in arrange and finish the tune off.
This is how I tend to work with it, I don't see the point in trying to make a tune using just the session view, Live wasn't designed to work like that, there wouldn't be a session AND arrange if this was the case. Session view is where you do the live performing, arrange view is where you finish the production details.
I guess this is where it comes down to individual use and how we are all different - I really love working in the session view, I just think it keeps things really fluid and exciting because I try and keep up with it - meaning I try and make all the changes really quickly on the fly without stopping as if I was playing live, even in the studio

what I find this does is really help keep me tune in with the music and rely on instincts because I need to make changes quickly so it doesn't get boring - so if it is looping a certain way then I just hear how I think it should go next and try and make it happen really quickly - it keeps it more immediate and improvisational rather than getting to much into my head thinking about things too hard

the ability to automate is key here because as soon as I start doing that then I have to leave this constantly flowing, inspirational and evolving environment and move into the same old dull, linear kind of arranger where you have to look at everything all plotted out and THINK about where everything should go

to put it another way, I see the session view a bit more like the pattern sequencers in reason

I really loved the way it was so easy to sequence automation with the Matrix sequencer in Reason, but the other elements of Reason bugged me, like the limitations of the actual sounds and filters etc that you were automating with it - so I have always wanted the same kind of thing in Live.

CLip envelopes came really damn close, but the fact that you have to go and set them up first and can't immediately create them is to me a bit like building a ferrari and then making the accelerator computer controlled so that you had to open the glove box and pull out a screen to program in the times when you want to speed up

did you start of making music with groove boxes? thats how i always haved looked ast session view and the matrix in reason. i think they are cool but i can never make a full track with either. in reason i always used the programs sequencer and live i just use arrange view.. maybe it has to do with what you started out using.. i started with a tascam portastudio..

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:55 am

I use session view for the first 20 % and after that it's all Arrangement chopping and splicing and moving stuff around. Micro editing multi-envelopes, tweaking sample slices, etc.

Session is too limited really, it needs to be beefed up so it can do more.
If I want to do freaky sample stuff in Session I must slice it all up and put it in Sampler ... now it's all several levels removed and I have to flip through a load of panels to access each sample slice.

When I work in Arrangement the samples are right there in front of me, it just shows that Session is lagging behind.

Session is great for those first moments, but I wish I could use it for something at all during the later parts of the song creation process ... IE once I start doing the complex editing.

I expect Session not to be beefed up in Live 8

forge · Post by **forge** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:56 am

nathannn wrote: did you start of making music with groove boxes? thats how i always haved looked ast session view and the matrix in reason. i think they are cool but i can never make a full track with either. in reason i always used the programs sequencer and live i just use arrange view.. maybe it has to do with what you started out using.. i started with a tascam portastudio..

actually I started out as a guitarist, so yeah things like 8 track tape, then early cubase and Logic, when I first got into electronic music I was using Micro logic (just MIDI) to drive a sampler

I spent a long time using those kind of linear sequencers - this is why I loved Live's session view approach and why I wasn't so bothered if they caught up with those sequencers as I was already used to using them

thing is really I love using Live for everything, so I do actually want a lot of the DAW features, I just didn't feel any urgency for them because there are already so many other sequencers that provide them

nathannn · Post by **nathannn** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:14 am

Angstrom wrote:I use session view for the first 20 % and after that it's all Arrangement chopping and splicing and moving stuff around. Micro editing multi-envelopes, tweaking sample slices, etc.

Session is too limited really, it needs to be beefed up so it can do more.
If I want to do freaky sample stuff in Session I must slice it all up and put it in Sampler ... now it's all several levels removed and I have to flip through a load of panels to access each sample slice.

When I work in Arrangement the samples are right there in front of me, it just shows that Session is lagging behind.

Session is great for those first moments, but I wish I could use it for something at all during the later parts of the song creation process ... IE once I start doing the complex editing.

I expect Session not to be beefed up in Live 8

this is how i view session, except for using it 20 percent of the time.
i use it maybe 5 percent only as a quick way to audition samples that i end up choosing not to use.
i will start out in arrange view and record something (guitars mostly) and just so i feel im making use of session i might drag a clip to it. but i always end up wondering if i am starting out in arrange, and if i have to use arrange to edit and make a clip that will work well in session, why not just stay in arrange view.
i can totally see using session view as a live tool but mainly for tap dancing on a midi controller for a glorified one man band act.
if session view was more advanced like forge is suggesting then im sure i would use it alot.. but its not.. so i view it as a mixer that can play clips...

if only i was a dj...

JJarvis · Post by **JJarvis** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:33 am

I can't understand why anyone would want a step sequencer when you already have a piano roll that you can easily pencil in sequences. I would prefer some type of step input feature like in logic. Not to mention groove templates and more midi edit features. Midi is my main complaint in live at this moment. Under the hood improvements with performance would be welcomed as well. I'm starting to feel that live is no longer as rock solid as it use to be when I started with version 5. Maybe we all expect too much out of it now.

Homebelly · Post by **Homebelly** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:43 am

forge wrote:
actually I started out as a guitarist, so yeah things like 8 track tape, then early cubase and Logic, when I first got into electronic music I was using Micro logic (just MIDI) to drive a sampler

I spent a long time using those kind of linear sequencers - this is why I loved Live's session view approach and why I wasn't so bothered if they caught up with those sequencers as I was already used to using them

thing is really I love using Live for everything, so I do actually want a lot of the DAW features, I just didn't feel any urgency for them because there are already so many other sequencers that provide them

This could easily discribe me!!
My God..
I'M YOU, AND YOU ARE ME!!!!

And every thing is our fault!!!!

Homebelly · Post by **Homebelly** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:46 am

nathannn wrote:
Angstrom wrote: When I work in Arrangement the samples are right there in front of me, it just shows that Session is lagging behind.

This has crossed my mind a couple of times..How cool would it be if session clips represented what was in them, so an audio clip would have an over view of the audio file, the midi clip the piano roll. Maybe even be able to blow them up in size to do quick dirty edits so the clip box is no longer needed????

I'm not sure how good an idea this is,, i'm just riffing now...

Action Jackson · Post by **Action Jackson** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:07 am

Since Live is pretty much in the same price range as Logic Studio, I'd expect them to match Logic as far as features are concerned. Surround mixing and export (Dolby Digital AC-3 encoding) are the first that come to mind. And more audio editing features.