help me vote for obama

[doc holiday]

ThowAway,

the "trickle down theory" does not work. big business pockets the extra profits they make

republicans use words like "morals" to make you think they are looking out for you.

in reality they are looking out for a very small portion of the population.

what is more important stimulating a small number at the top?

or stimulating the majority of the population?

why the hell should we wait for big business to "trickle down" their profits to us when we got them where they are to begin with?

[thelike5]

Im a liberal with reasons to vote republican this time but I was totally split 50/50 on mccain and obama so i was going to either vote ron paul or write in paris hilton until I read on the huffington post(as bad/unreliable/ridicoulous as obermen/orieily imo) about grimmes being mccains financial advisor. what are the chances of grimmes being in the cabinet if mccain wins? please source your info in your post...feel free to add any other source-able info if you like...this would be my tipping point to vote obama. preemptive fuck you for all the "this is a live board, not us politics board, I hate americans" hypocritical bastards)

I simply can't understand, in this election, how somebody needs convinving one way or another. Are you a moron? Seriously, I simply can't understand.

The choice is as clear as day. Do you need help prepping your bowl of cereal each morning? Can you tie your own shoes yet?

How is 11% of this country still undecided?

[nebulae]

Neb- my reasons are: some of my family own farms out in the mid west and probably could stick it out through one term of obama but by the second the tax on them would eventually force them to sell as small business usually suffer the most during a democratic term. Obama and his tax plan is way out of reality because what has happened in the past when big business gets taxed is they pass it on and the economy slows. Mccain will bolster big business(which includes my employers) by giving them more incentives, more tax breaks and allowing them to take out bigger loans. Dont get me wrong, I know this is exactly what obama will do no matter what he says currently the fact is hes playing politics and trying to win the election, i understand that but he will do these things to a lesser degree.
When mccain talks about cutting our social programs and "trimming" the fat more than likely he will cut the double and triple funded programs like the school lunch program brought up awhile ago, I am for this.. obamas plan to force small business owners into government insurance is not a step I want to see taken because its free market capitalism and it will force alot of them out of business. I will continue to post later but i have to go.


I started a post replying to most everyone in order but the browser Im using deleted it when I pushed post so Ill rewrite it soon. thank you! some comments led me to learning some new things so I am grateful.

Taxes for people/businesses making $250k or more would go up 3%.

Given the ridiculous deficit and national debt, you don't think that paying 3% more to start paying down that debt is about time to do?

I'll put it another way...those who can pay a bit more will start paying back the credit they have lived on for the past 8 years...like a high interest credit card that needs to be paid off. However, the alternative is

1. Living on more high interest credit, where the Chinese stay on the winning end of the steady transfer of wealth;
2. A continued war that's costing billions thereby causing the cycle of wealth transfer and living on credit;
3. An unclear plan toward energy independence, thereby continued transfer of wealth to ensure foreign oil;
4. Social policies that cater to about 25% of the country who are hard core jesus freaks, thereby continuing to promote the cultural divide that keeps US from moving forward;
5. Economic policies that favor deregulation, thereby allowing Wall Street to live like and unchecked Gordon Gekko;
6. A vice president who is entirely unqualified if something might happen to the top dog, who has battled cancer four times and looks like he needs a cane to get to the oval office;
7. A vice president who holds such little confidence around the world that her very election would ensure a continued world resentment of America as a closed-minded, fat, stupid, imperialist, oil-hungry, Walmart-nation that is too arrogant to care about the interests of the rest of the planet...

We are not an island. The things we do matter to the rest. Our actions as a people create opinions about us, and those opinions around the globe matter. Just think of what electing (arguably not!) W has done for our world standing...

Bottom line, you can't just oversimplify the issue as "higher taxes = bad candidate" - the issue of economics is entirely tied to our social and governmental policies, and how we live our lives on credit, well beyond our means. It's time to pay up, and if not now, then you're fucking your future and your children's future.

All for a measly 3% increase that you personally won't even feel unless you make over $250k. Now I've never made that much money, but during the dot.com boom, I made a comfortable six figures, and I can tell you right now that 3% to me wouldn't have even been a dent in my lifestyle. If my government called on me to help pay back the credit bill on which we lived, and I made 250k or more, I'd gladly pay 3%.

Let's break it down even more. Suppose you or your business does make 250K, which means you bring in $20,833 per month. Right now, you are taxed at 36%, which means after taxes you bring in $13,333 per month. Under the "disastrous" Obama tax plan, you'd bring home $12,708. On a weekly basis, the difference would be from $3,076 (at 36%) to $2,932 (at 39%). Now I'll throw this argument back to you...You wanna tell me that all the negatives against BigMac and his Beauty Queen are worth having, and worth not paying $144 a week when you make $250,000 a year? Seriously?

[TomTom]

All for a measly 3% increase that you personally won't even feel unless you make over $250k. Now I've never made that much money, but during the dot.com boom, I made a comfortable six figures, and I can tell you right now that 3% to me wouldn't have even been a dent in my lifestyle. If my government called on me to help pay back the credit bill on which we lived, and I made 250k or more, I'd gladly pay 3%.

You're free to pay your extra 3% now, why don't you do that? It's so easy when it's someone else's money. And why the $250k cutoff? Why not $125k? Someone $125k could chip in 3% more and not feel a dent in their lifestyle.

And why should anyone be forced to fork over any more of their earnings to an entity that's already demonstrated it's ineptness in financial mismanagement?

Fess up. This kind of thinking comes only from a place of envy.

[nebulae]

Fess up. This kind of thinking comes only from a place of envy.

Yup, I envy nations that don't live on credit.

And now, your turn. Fess up...you like it the more the world hates America.

[nebulae]

Also, does anyone here actually think that President McCain won't raise taxes? How does he expect to pay for...well, anything??!?!

Also, I was wrong in my analysis above. If you make $250k, you still pay NOTHING more than you pay now...no higher taxes.

Any amount you make over 250K, you pay 3% more on that amount only. Below 250k, you don't pay any more.

So I'll go back to my original argument: is a few extra bucks, which is less than a nice dinner out once a week, worth paying to take down our national debt and balance our deficit, or are we gonna stay on our very white, very old, very god-fearing high horse?

[Tone Deft]

I started a post replying to most everyone in order but the browser Im using deleted it when I pushed post so Ill rewrite it soon. thank you! some comments led me to learning some new things so I am grateful.

when that happens, log in again, then hit the 'page back' button on your browser to get back to your post and try to submit it again. if that doesn't work (it might say 'invalid session') then ctrl-a to select it all and try again from the beginning.

there's more to life than money and more issues to consider. at least one Supreme Court justice will be appointed by the next POTUS.

I can't fathom how people are undecided, but that's me.

[nebulae]

Also, retort me with facts. Save the moral whining for someone who isn't going to win on Nov 4.

[nebulae]

I have decided that anyone who complains about Obama tax hikes makes over $250,000 a year. Therefore, post pictures of your bitches and your bling or I won't take you seriously.

In short, put your money where you mouth is. Mofo.

[TomTom]

Also, retort me with facts. Save the moral whining for someone who isn't going to win on Nov 4.

I actually think I could go along with you (as unfair as I think it is) if I knew that the extra taxes would be put toward lowering debt. They won't. Nothing will change, government will spend more regardless of who is elected.

Given that fact, I prefer people keep their money.

And for the record, I make well, well under $250k. And I applaud millionaires.

[nebulae]

Also, retort me with facts. Save the moral whining for someone who isn't going to win on Nov 4.

I actually think I could go along with you (as unfair as I think it is) if I knew that the extra taxes would be put toward lowering debt. They won't. Nothing will change, government will spend more regardless of who is elected.

Given that fact, I prefer people keep their money.

Now that IS a fair argument...government has been piss-poor at making a difference.

I'd refute that by pointing to how the Obama campaign has been run the past 20 months. Look at the things that have changed from any other campaign in the past:

1. More money than any other campaign.
2. First democrat to go into southern states and challenge them seriously (no, Bill Clinton doesn't count).
3. A massive organization that was built from the ground up.
4. No lobbyist money.
5. Youth energy.
6. Use of information technology, the Internet, and social networking sites to build consensus.

All of these point to an entirely new direction in which we tackle and solve problems. There is no doubt in my mind that government as we know it will be forced into the 21st century under an Obama revolution.

BTW, *hugs* - I appreciate a good debate

Now where are your bitches and your bling bling, mofo?!?!?!?

[TomTom]

I'd refute that by pointing to how the Obama campaign has been run the past 20 months. Look at the things that have changed from any other campaign in the past:

1. More money than any other campaign.
2. First democrat to go into southern states and challenge them seriously (no, Bill Clinton doesn't count).
3. A massive organization that was built from the ground up.
4. No lobbyist money.
5. Youth energy.
6. Use of information technology, the Internet, and social networking sites to build consensus.

All of these point to an entirely new direction in which we tackle and solve problems. There is no doubt in my mind that government as we know it will be forced into the 21st century under an Obama revolution.

At least you'll get to hold on to those hopes and dreams through Christmas. We still have a two-party congress who are looking only at their own interests and not those of the American people. No president has any real power over that.

And my bitch is at home with the kids; my bling is locked up in my Corolla.

[nebulae]

And my bitch is at home with the kids; my bling is locked up in my Corolla.

Good gas mileage...damn, I miss my civic! Drove the corolla once when the civic was in the shop...good freakin' car, dude.

As for congress, you're right...that's gonna have to change.

[doc holiday]

what is exactly wrong with calling on the people who prosper to help ensure a system where future generations have the ability to prosper even further?


this is a bad thing?

[leisuremuffin]

yeah, it's called communism. That's what Barrack Husein Obama has been groomed to do to this country since he launched his political campaign in the living room of an unrepentant domestic terrorist! He's going to hand this country over to a big communist government that's going to redistribute your wealth to a bunch of lazy baby-killing dopers.

god damned commies.


This country needs a MAVERICK like Sarah Palin to lead us through this time of hardship. Somebody who BELIEVES IN AMERICA, not some overeducated malcontent that HATES AMERICA AND HATES FREEDOM! His whole career has been engineered by nutjob radicals that want to turn this country into a communist state. These people BOMBED THEIR OWN COUNTRY and HATE AMERICA! Listen to that slimeball Obama talk, he sure can talk all fancy, but did you ever notice he never says he's not going to force your daughter to have her unborn baby dismembered, ripped from her womb and thrown in the trash??? He WILL! He won't salute the flag, wasn't born in the US, and eats a Jew baby EVERY NIGHT BEFORE HE GOES TO BED!



Palin '09! Country First!



.lm.