Resampling timing problems? (7.0.10)

condra · Post by **condra** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:17 am

Anyone else get a slight gap at the top of their resampling?

Any time I have resampled anything recently I have had to move the first warp marker ahead a bit because of a few milliseconds of silence..

DJDJ · Post by **DJDJ** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:42 am

Interesting....

I was going to (and still will) post a thread about how I suspect that ableton's timing (MIDI specifically) is whack when bouncing/ resampling soft synths. Perhaps this is related? I just spent all evening adjusting the timing of drum hits that I bounced to mix in logic. Is this a known bug, anyone?

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:03 am

Well... I was recently comparing some mastering tools and hosts, it was surprising how much the audio exported out of Live was delayed compared to other hosts (Logic, Wavelab, Wave Editor, Soundtrack Pro). In order to do phase cancellation tests among the DAWs, I had to always delete some audio from the beginning of files rendered from Ableton. Not really an issue for most people doing a final mixdown at all, just confirming that I've seen this too. I could see where this would be annoying if you reimporting into a project.

DJDJ · Post by **DJDJ** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:01 am

Thanks for the confirmation, Tarekith.

The thing for me is that the delay was not the same for each track, AND would flex between being in front of, and behind the beat

I'll post pics soon....

it was a pain in the ass to correct it all by hand, and I hope that if this is an ableton problem, that they fix it soon, as I don't want to do this for every track I make, and I don't really like mixing down in Live with it's current mixer setup & summing quality.
If these things were drastically improved in version 8, I'd be one happy dude.

purveyor2 · Post by **purveyor2** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:23 am

I'm not sure it is just with resampling. I just got a mopho, so now I am not using softsynths exclusively. My audio recordings are all delayed a few ticks. AND it isn't completely uniform track to track. Next to impossible to lay a bunch of audio tracks and then use a Live drumkit. Can't get tight timing.

I did resample some softies today and the timing looked good, for what it's worth...

I played with the audio set up params and no significant change was seen, so I was moving the warp markers trying to get it all locked in. PITA.

Crash · Post by **Crash** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:48 am

DJDJ wrote:Interesting....

I was going to (and still will) post a thread about how I suspect that ableton's timing (MIDI specifically) is whack when bouncing/ resampling soft synths. Perhaps this is related? I just spent all evening adjusting the timing of drum hits that I bounced to mix in logic. Is this a known bug, anyone?

Try a smaller Plugin Buffer size and report back if that helps please.

pepezabala · Post by **pepezabala** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:20 am

purveyor2 wrote:I'm not sure it is just with resampling. I just got a mopho, so now I am not using softsynths exclusively. My audio recordings are all delayed a few ticks. AND it isn't completely uniform track to track. Next to impossible to lay a bunch of audio tracks and then use a Live drumkit. Can't get tight timing.

I did resample some softies today and the timing looked good, for what it's worth...

I played with the audio set up params and no significant change was seen, so I was moving the warp markers trying to get it all locked in. PITA.

did you do the proper latency compensation testing and adjusting?

DJDJ · Post by **DJDJ** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:45 am

Crash wrote:
DJDJ wrote:Interesting....

I was going to (and still will) post a thread about how I suspect that ableton's timing (MIDI specifically) is whack when bouncing/ resampling soft synths. Perhaps this is related? I just spent all evening adjusting the timing of drum hits that I bounced to mix in logic. Is this a known bug, anyone?
Try a smaller Plugin Buffer size and report back if that helps please.

will do, thanks for the heads up!

djsynchro · Post by **djsynchro** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:12 pm

I get it too.

purveyor2 · Post by **purveyor2** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:26 pm

I had messed around with the audio latency/compensation setting without effect.

I went through the tutorial step by step this a.m. Got the driver error compensation at 23 ms based on the offset of audio wave which was triggered by a midi track.

Once I compared the new audio wave with the old one - There is ZERO difference in the gap. Adjusting the driver error compensation even further yielded, that's right, ZERO difference. So now I'm either all external audio or all soft.

pepezabala · Post by **pepezabala** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:19 pm

which monitor settings did you have on the recording track? The latency compesation only kicks in with monitor set off (see last page of the corresponding lesson).

DJDJ · Post by **DJDJ** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:42 pm

Here's a few photos of what I'm talking about. I'm not sure if it's the same issue or not.....

I wrote this track in ableton. The particular tracks that are pictured were drums written in battery, and then either bounced down and reimported, or frozen and flattened (not totally sure which I did). On one of the tracks (ASF kick), I immediately noticed the timing drifting and had to hand correct the audio in live. After I finished writing the track in live, I exported everything and brought it into Logic for mixing. I have had a difficult time with phasing and weird timing with my drums, so I took a look, and the following photos are what I saw:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31512945@N03/

**edit: new link to flickr instead of mediafire**

the thing is, the drifiting of the hits is not consistently in front of or behind the beat, and drifts this much FROM BAR TO BAR

Now, the reason that I suspect that it's Live is that Logic's timing is sample accurate, and battery is tight as well.

What are your thoughts?

BTW if this is a different issue, lemme know and I'll start a new thread.

This sucks--

I LOVE writing in live, but if I can't get tight timing when I export, then I can't make beats, as my cpu is old and not very powerful and bouncing is a necessary part of my workflow.

Anyone else dealing with this????

elxicano · Post by **elxicano** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:29 pm

Hey DJDJ,

I couldn't see the screenshot even after copying the complete link.

I can tell you that I experience the same problem when using certain Ableton FX. I'll have to get back to you on which ones.

Also it does seem that you might be experiencing a problem different than this. A simple way to test, is by bringing those rendered samples into a new project, or even just audio track in the same project to see if the timing is off there.

This will help you narrow the problem down.

I'm not a logic user, so I couldn't help you on that end, but I can say that its always been pain importing tracks recorded in other hosts, so its not hard to imagine just the reverse happening by exporting to another host.

DJDJ · Post by **DJDJ** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:32 pm

-I'm surprised we can't upload pictures on this forum-

THanks for the ideas elxicano.

The thing is, I did try reimporting in ableton, and had these problems.

And logic is really solid with it's timing. I've imported tracks from other programs such as reason, cubase, and other other logic projects without any problems, so I don't think it's logic....

here's the pics of the timing drift after importing to logic...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31512945@N03/