The new MacBooks don't have firewire, get over it.

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:59 pm

Not surprised here, and IMO not worth crying about.

Apple have always been ahead of the game regarding outdated standards (SCSI, floppies), and in the end, the foresight prevailed. Watch the number of USB peripherals that follow.

Firewire is still on the new MBP. It's also available as ExpressCard/34.

smutek · Post by **smutek** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 2:15 pm

heavensdaw wrote:All this just makes me realize even more clearly that as consumers we are being led along in the direction these multi-national companies want..

I know this is a bit off the topic, but this topic made me think of this as it kind of ties in to the experience of being screwed over when companies decide to drop support for things you still use.

I own one of those Harmon Kardon iSubs. It's just a little USB subwoofer, nothing an audiophile or a professional would get wet over, just a little consumer level device. Mine had been sitting in the closet for a couple of years and about a year ago I pulled it out and hooked it up to my desktop.

Being a hobbyist musician I've never seen the need to invest in high end audio monitors, so I have little MAudio DX4's hooked up to my G5. I was really happy with the sound when I added the iSub. I didn't use it for making music but just for general listening while doing homework, working on design projects, etc. and it sounded really nice along with the maudio speakers.

I wondered why in the hell I let it sit in the closet for all of that time. So, all was good until I decided to upgrade to leopard earlier this year.

With the release of Leopard Apple no longer supports the iSub, for no technical reason they have really explained. The broken iSub was originally listed as a bug in leopard but eventually Apple released a statement saying the device would no longer be supported because it is some odd years old.

Now, I know this is not nearly as big of a deal as firewire and is a different issue all together since a lot of you guys earn money doing audio and have money tied up in expensive interfaces, but it really does show how shitty these companies can be.

The real kicker is that apparently the device works on vista and XP. According to other people they plug it into their windows box and "it just works".

So now me and a lot of other people have these really cool looking clear plastic subs that have become nothing more than paper weights, despite the fact that they still work perfectly. And it is for what seems to be no reason other than they are "old" and that apple no longer feels the need to include the driver for it.

I don't know about you but I replace my equipment when it no longer works or when it no longer serves my needs. Not because apple tells me it is old. This is just one of a few things that have pissed me off about apple since the release of leopard.

I've already downgraded my powerbook and my macbook, and once this semester is over I will most likely be downgrading my desktop G5 to tiger 10.4.whatever.

Ok, sorry for the off topic.

MFaulkner · Post by **MFaulkner** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:56 pm

djsynchro · Post by **djsynchro** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 5:17 pm

"Soon there will be 2 kinds of people. Those who use FireWire, and those who use Apples."

jah4life · Post by **jah4life** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 5:33 pm

Tarekith wrote:Me neither, which is why I don't understand all this complaining.

it's only been a few days, we have to let the dust settle a little bit. if people are still complaining in a week i'd tell them to get over it.

well for me it's not really a complaint, but rather an observation. and as i observe it, it's pretty lame, imho.

But I think the point of this is to bring more attention to the no-fw issue, and perhaps motivate people to write apple to ask for the features they want.

also to vent. apple sucks. I was considering buying a new macbook soon, but now I must wait or spend a ton more on a mb pro, which I don't really need.

jah4life · Post by **jah4life** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 5:45 pm

USB SUCKS!!!!

USB 1, 2.0, 3.0, 10000.0, 100000000000000.0

It doesn't matter. They all suck! LONG LIVE FIREWIRE!

kaffein · Post by **kaffein** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:39 am

USB doesn't exactly suck, it's just a form factor connection with 12MB/s, 480MB/s and soon 600MB/s data rates...

It just so happens that most of the USB 1.0 and 2.0 I/Os have shitty components.

A company could build a ultra high quality I/O, with top of the line pres and converters, and have it USB 1.0 only. It would just be limited to I believe 8 stereo tracks of 44.1 16bit (2 channels of 16bit 44.1 kHz audo = 1.4 Mbit/s | USB 1.1 = 12 Mbit/s) They could even have 24bit/96kHz support in it if the hardware specs were top notch, you would just only be able to record 3 stereo tracks I believe. (1.536Mbit/s per mono track?)

So yeah It's not the USB thats sucks, it's just a data transfer rate and a form factor. It's the products companies are making, or not making for the limitations that sucks.

I'm pretty sure someone out there could only need to be able to record 1 mono track at a time, and someone could make a high quality interface w/ USB 1.1 only... It's just probably not going to happen.

jah4life · Post by **jah4life** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:04 am

sorry i had a tourette's moment there.

but ok, so if we are to stop complaining, then what's next?

what's going to be the newer, faster, affordable standard for pro-audio, if FW is apparently "on it's way out"? (personally it seems like apple is forcing people to adopt this point of view)

I haven't seen any new standard emerge. Like others have said, MOST of the
high-end, yet affordable devices these days are Firewire. You think all these companies are going to start converting to USB?

Isn't USB always going to be inherently slower? I mean even if USB can potentially be very fast,, if they stick with FW and develop it, isn't there more potential there?

kaffein · Post by **kaffein** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:40 am

jah4life wrote:sorry i had a tourette's moment there.

but ok, so if we are to stop complaining, then what's next?

what's going to be the newer, faster, affordable standard for pro-audio, if FW is apparently "on it's way out"? (personally it seems like apple is forcing people to adopt this point of view)

I haven't seen any new standard emerge. Like others have said, MOST of the
high-end, yet affordable devices these days are Firewire. You think all these companies are going to start converting to USB?

Isn't USB always going to be inherently slower? I mean even if USB can potentially be very fast,, if they stick with FW and develop it, isn't there more potential there?

Firewire is on it's way out yes, but that is just Apples brand of the IEEE 1394 interface... It just so happened that the name Firewire took off because of Apple, and I.Link/Lynx (all IEEE 1394) did not.

That aside I think this all depends on the video market... The video industry could milk recording and playback standards for another 50-100 years* until they hit the plateau of usefulness for consumers.

Audio however we've already reached our plateau, 24bit, 48kHz audio is the highest I'd ever want to listen/record music on. However 24bit, 96kHz is useful for people recording with high def mics that are going to be pitching stuff down.

I see 48kHz really as the human end of sample rates, however the bit rate could go up as much as they'd like... and knowing corporations, they will keep pushing higher sample rate devices on naive consumers for another 20 years, even though they have absolutely no need for it.

*

kaffein · Post by **kaffein** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:11 am

About the bit rates though, we could just forget about PCM, and adopt Sony & Sharp's 1bit (dsf[DSD]) and have that be the end of it.

I think we're fucked, and they will always find a way to make even professionals give in to making expense purchases.

leedsquietman · Post by **leedsquietman** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:31 am

Hambone, the fact that FW is still on the MBP is of no consolation to those who can't afford a 2k computer. And the pro audio market for most consumers can be achieved without needing to pay for a MBP. You do not need a MBP for pro audio unless you are running very high track and plugin counts and those who are already have a more powerful machine.

Apple f*cked up. Pure and simple. Why people can't admit their beloved Apple made a mistake is beyond me. Mistakes happen, but ignorance and denial is far worse.

They must surely realize that they have a huge slice of the pro audio market, which is a very considerable niche market and certainly one of the reasons why Mac computers have enjoyed a bit of a renaissance in the past few years. The fact that Apple market LOGIC and have partnered with APOGEE to make FIREWIRE interfaces in the past, should dictate that they might want to reconsider. So what if video interfaces are changing, the pro audio market is definately as big as the video market, and besides PC rules the video market with Avid, Adobe Premiere and Sony Vegas all outselling Final Cut Pro. Add in a new standard if you must for video, but don't shoot yourself in the foot.

Apple lead the market in standards and updating their interfaces, but they also lead the market in alienating their market and Steve Jobs leads the market in - arse...

deva · Post by **deva** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:08 am

Tarekith wrote:Complaining about it is not going to change anything. No one is forcing you to upgrade, and if you do want to upgrade, you'll have to get a MBP and arguably a better compute anyway. Or get the white MB which is still available and cheap anyway. There's a reason a "PRO" computer might still have connections for a 'pro' level audio interface. If you want a consumer level laptop, you're going to have to get a consumer level audio interface.

That is all.

they should not bother putting iMovie on any of the macbooks then, cause all those consumer video cameras wont be able to easily transfer video over anymore... really stupid idea to can the firewire and lose everyone who likes to edit some of their own home movies of the kiddies... nothing 'pro' about that... Apple F'ed up

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:12 am

Amazing that this thread has gone to 3 pages! Weird how suddenly everyone hates their plastic macbooks too, man, they must really suck! Can't believe people who couldn't afford a macbook pro used them this whole time.

(6 pages by Tuesday...???)

anti-banausic · Post by **anti-banausic** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:32 am

So, this just emphasizes the way that I feel about apple....

Visionary company......Yes.

Quality products......Yes.

Do you generally get what you pay for......Yes.

More expensive than alternatives........Yes.

Does company benefit from creating cycles and planned obsolescence.....absolutely. In fact, apple uses this plan more than any other, and I feel almost more upset by their need to be "green". That is a farce. They benefit and abuse the creation of new, "must have" devices and the inherent, subconscious need for most people to have the newest and best to feel good about themselves.

Also, I have always felt the new advertising campaign...."I'm a PC, and I'm a Mac" was inherently dishonest, portraying one in the worst possible way, and the other in the best, while still appearing to be "honest"...

I love the product, but parts of the company are slightly unforgivable.

Love OSX.

And Logic.

musick · Post by **musick** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:54 am

anti-banausic wrote:Also, I have always felt the new advertising campaign...."I'm a PC, and I'm a Mac" was inherently dishonest, portraying one in the worst possible way, and the other in the best, while still appearing to be "honest"...

But very well done, right on spot, and very funny

I love the product, but parts of the company are slightly unforgivable.

Love OSX.

And Logic.

+1

The new MacBooks don't have firewire, get over it.

Re: The new MacBooks don't have firewire, get over it.