Best and worst part of using VST's?

Soma · Post by **Soma** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:48 pm

What in your all minds is the best and worst part of using VST plugins and how can VST developers improve VSTs to address these issues?

I'll start.
The best part of using VSTs is that almost any sound can be created and instantly recalled.

The worst part of using VSTs is that they are expensive and I am not able to exchange projects with others unless I bounce down or they have the same plugins (in Buzz, all plugins had to be free under licence and I could easily open any Buzz song ever made). Ideally it would be nice to open any song to teach and learn from others about sound design, mixing and composition.
I also do not like that the interfaces are hidden and introduce a new window to my workflow.

One suggestion:
If VSTs could be released in a format that fit into the Ablton rack the issue of viability and work flow would be solved. I do not have a solution to exchanging songs other than freezing everything.

[edit]
I have a dream...
what if all plugins ran off the web. A user would login and type their password and have access to their plugins (Totally portable you could use them on any computer anytime anywhere in the world for life and they would always be up to date. You would never lose them, have to update them, or reinstall them). Now imagine I send a song to you and you do not have my plugins. You would be able to open the song, see and hear the plugins but with some crippling agent like save disabled or inability to change the sound.

crumhorn · Post by **crumhorn** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:48 pm

Good things

Work in any host
Plenty of interesting freebies
Some weird and wonderful ideas from small companies

Bad things

Live 6.10 turns into crash central on my Vista based Vaio as soon as I use *any* VST instruments.

Soma · Post by **Soma** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:31 am

That sucks to hear. What are some of your thoughts on integrating VSTs better with a host?

beats me · Post by **beats me** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:02 pm

Soma wrote: The worst part of using VSTs is that they are expensive and I am not able to exchange projects with others unless I bounce down or they have the same plugins (in Buzz, all plugins had to be free under licence and I could easily open any Buzz song ever made).

Um, when's the last time you purchased a hardware synth? Or tried to upload one to your buddy on the Internet?

Aside from large sample library based instruments, the most expensive softsynth is probably cheaper than the cheapest hardware synth and can do a lot more by comparison.

Also I think you're missing the point of VST instruments in your suggestion. Anybody that owns that instrument can open your song. Putting them in a rack for you is zero added value. Anybody already can do that, not to mention open the instrument in any DAW of their choice.

Soma · Post by **Soma** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:18 pm

Beatsme,

I see where you are coming from. I'm looking for more feedback on the VSt experience more than just a hardware vs. software thing. I guess the question should be how could the whole software plugin paradigm be improved?

(Also, I should point out that if someone wants to open my song and I am using a copy protected VST, they must have that VST to hear the part of the song using it.)

Geebag · Post by **Geebag** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:29 pm

I like the tweak ability of soft synths with all their physical knobs. Also I find this tiring and sometimes I stop.

ewistrand · Post by **ewistrand** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:58 pm

Soma wrote:Beatsme,

(Also, I should point out that if someone wants to open my song and I am using a copy protected VST, they must have that VST to hear the part of the song using it.)

And if you were using a hardware synth and hadn't bounced to audio, they'd have to have the same hardware synth to hear the exact same sound you came up with. Your point?

ew

Meef Chaloin · Post by **Meef Chaloin** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:36 pm

why not just use freeware? there's plenty of quality stuff around these days, not to mention Live's instruments & fx

and how many people actually own the vsti's they use?!

glitchrock-buddha · Post by **glitchrock-buddha** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:53 pm

Soma wrote: The best part of using VSTs is that almost any sound can be created and instantly recalled.

The worst part of using VSTs is that they are expensive and I am not able to exchange projects with others unless I bounce down or they have the same plugins (in Buzz, all plugins had to be free under licence and I could easily open any Buzz song ever made). Ideally it would be nice to open any song to teach and learn from others about sound design, mixing and composition.

One suggestion:
If VSTs could be released in a format that fit into the Ablton rack the issue of viability and work flow would be solved. I do not have a solution to exchanging songs other than freezing everything.

[edit]
I have a dream...
what if all plugins ran off the web. A user would login and type their password and have access to their plugins (Totally portable you could use them on any computer anytime anywhere in the world for life and they would always be up to date. You would never lose them, have to update them, or reinstall them). Now imagine I send a song to you and you do not have my plugins. You would be able to open the song, see and hear the plugins but with some crippling agent like save disabled or inability to change the sound.

I disagree with almost all of what you said to be honest. Soft synths are so damn cheap it is incomparable how much easier it is for anyone to make electronic music compared to just 10 years ago. It is also infinitely easier to share song files since vsts because it's so easy to either simply open a file if you have the same instruments or if you don't, just bouce down rather than having to record every part through an audio interface.

And I definitely want my synths off-line, not on-line. If a company goes under, I still want to be able to use the product I bought from them. And I also want to be able to use my products without an internet connection.

crumhorn · Post by **crumhorn** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:03 pm

Soma wrote:That sucks to hear. What are some of your thoughts on integrating VSTs better with a host?

The best improvement for workflow would be for VST creators to use less screen space for the GUI. More intelligent UI design better use of space and less insistence on looking like hardware knobs would be most welcome.

Better integration of VST parameters into the host GUI is the responsibility of the host software IMO.

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:15 pm

Problem with getting soft synth manufacturers to integrate their GUI into Live etc. is that Live is crippled when it come to VST support, only 128 parameters will show up. Attack VST for instance has about 1000 parameters. How would having a non pop up GUI help you in Live if you could only access 128 out of those thousand?? If you really want Live's plug in GUI, get the suite plug ins, Sampler, Operator etc. and the built in, crippled, watered down from their VST line AAS versions that limit their parameters to 128 for you. It's so great to have integration with less features!

As far as sharing songs with people who don't own a plug in etc. Freeze the track, problem solved.

As far as plug ins on the internet, I'm not downloading 60GB worth of sample content every time I open Kontakt, GURU, Battery etc.

glitchrock-buddha · Post by **glitchrock-buddha** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:25 pm

Machinesworking wrote:If you really want Live's plug in GUI, get the suite plug ins, Sampler, Operator etc. and the built in, crippled, watered down from their VST line AAS versions that limit their parameters to 128 for you. It's so great to have integration with less features!

Don't forget the awesomeness of not being able to record automation in clips thanks to that wonderful "integration"!

Geebag · Post by **Geebag** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:40 pm

My post above was just for fun by the way but seriously:

128? Why after so many versions is this still the case. How hard can it be to sort out this requested fix?

By the way integrated? How integrated are these plug ins anyway. i would swap the interface of analogue for the built in effects and interface of the AAS plug version. The effects in Ableton do not sound as good as the chorus and reverb of the original. I dont think they are any more stable than the originals either.

I like to be able to move round large one screen plug-in screens and hide them at will. Having them at the bottom of the screen has little benefit.

abort · Post by **abort** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:05 pm

best part ..lots of free stuff.

worst part ..you pull up a vst one day make a new sound, save it in a session that your working on only to find out that the next time you load up your session, ableton can't load the vst ...crashing the system. Now you must carefully remove the vst from your folder and maybe at most recover your midi data.

Mike Goodwin · Post by **Mike Goodwin** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:19 pm

Pro's
Speed of use, good results, updated in stead of outdated, sample rate only limited by CPU, much more powerful sound design than hardware eg. reaktor-MAX-Synth Edit, instant recall.

Cons
You need to use a computer and then in turn a operating system that is designed to do a billion things other than make music. If fact making music is one of the last things Apple and Microsoft are worried about I figure. What I would do for a "music OS!"
Also you need to use a computer oops I said that already.
OK next, most VST's do not sound "fantastic". There are thousands of products that just sound OK. So you have to dig through mountains of lameness to find the good stuff but that is not all that hard anymore.
NO DEDICATED INTERFACE
that's my bag

Best and worst part of using VST's?

Best and worst part of using VST's?

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