Mastering question

cupcakecore · Post by **cupcakecore** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:47 pm

Do I bounce my track to wav and then master that wav? so far i have been mastering on the master Chanel over the whole song with all the midi and audio tracks.

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:50 pm

get everything sounding the best you can in Live. once you feel you've done all you can and it sounds great, then render to .wav. if that .wav doesn't sound right either go back into Live and adjust things there, or tweak the final .wav.

AFAIK you can nail it in Live, render to wav and be done with it. YMMV use your ears.

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:56 pm

Either method is viable, use whatever method you prefer.

Superchibisan · Post by **Superchibisan** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:58 pm

do NOT master during production. do not mix through limiters/compressors.

this is THE worst thing you can do for your music. If you are going to master, render the stereo file and pop that back in and master that.

if it sounds like crap after that, go back to your mix and fix it.

dubpixel · Post by **dubpixel** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:11 pm

Superchibisan wrote:do NOT master during production. do not mix through limiters/compressors.

this is THE worst thing you can do for your music. If you are going to master, render the stereo file and pop that back in and master that.

if it sounds like crap after that, go back to your mix and fix it.

what is the benefit of the extra step in the process?

Hidden Driveways · Post by **Hidden Driveways** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:16 pm

I do what Superchi said. I don't put compressors or limiters in my master on the final mix. I render it, then I bring it back into Live as a stereo track. I then put a stereo file of a song that I think sounds good in another track. I look at the level the other song gets on the master meter. Then I mute it out, and play my song with a default Saturator (with only the Soft Clip turned on) and the Limi plug from Pluggo in the Master track. I adjust Limi untill the meter on the mater track is at the level of the other song I like. Oh, and I make sure it still sounds good.

The advantage of this quick and dirty matering is that my tune will compete volume-wise with commerical music (but I don't compress my stuff to death).

dubpixel · Post by **dubpixel** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:26 pm

couldn't you just a/b your master with a finished track and achieve the same results
without the extra step?
i also render and then have it professionally done, but i just don't see how the extra step could be beneficial, unless you need to convert to 24 bit first in order to optimize the main buss processing

abort · Post by **abort** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:45 pm

Just my .02 ..I think its easier on the master EQ/COMP/LT if you choose to go for the extra step ...less digital correction if its just one stereo track, instead of 16 or so slamming against fake plugin effect racks.

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:30 am

Yes, definitely don't do the mastering as part of the mixdown. That said, if you're happy with the mixdown after a couple of days, and your CPU can handle it, there's nothing wrong with using the mastering plug ins on the master channel of the project. You definitely want to try and mentally seperate the two processes though, and don't even think about using mastering plug ins while mixing IMVHO.

http://tarekith.com/assets/mastering.html

Superchibisan · Post by **Superchibisan** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:37 am

its bad for your mixing.

mixing and mastering are two completely different steps.

not to mention, no one will truly master your work if it already has limiting on it. limiting not only limits peaks, but it also limits what kind of improvements you can do to a sound file.

yes, you can master during the production process, but you'd better be the best mixing/mastering engineer ever. the extra step is so you have something concrete to work with, and frees up all your cpu power for mastering plugins. and gets you out of the mixing mode and into a mastering mindset.

memes_33 · Post by **memes_33** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:39 am

if you master after you mix, you can go back at a later date and remaster (or pay a professional to) without having to remix.

quandry · Post by **quandry** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:47 am

Superchibisan wrote:do NOT master during production. do not mix through limiters/compressors.

this is THE worst thing you can do for your music. If you are going to master, render the stereo file and pop that back in and master that.

if it sounds like crap after that, go back to your mix and fix it.

I'm all for initial mixing without anything on the master, and personally use the two step approach of render without a limiter then re-render that track with a limiter and multiband compression. I think it's fine to avoid the second step, just make sure you do all your mixing without a limiter on the master, get your mix tight, then try the limiter just before rendering.

That said, I think it is an definitely overstatement to say not to use a compressor on the mix buss--this is a VERY common technique that tons of great high-end productions use--the SSL and Neve boards have buss compresssors that are often used with 2:1 or 4:1 ratios with about 2-4 dB of gain reduction for tightening/fattening up a stereo mix. Read any book about mixing and studio production to learn more about that trick. Again, it's best to get the mix tight with nothing on the master, then, as your mix is getting close to there, throw on a compressor on the master and see how it goes.

dubpixel · Post by **dubpixel** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:54 am

some good points as far as correction goes, and reserving cpu if you need to, as well as having it worked on in another environment. the mental part of it is easy to understand, but holds no water technically. i'm just interested in the technical issues.
it's also easy enough to open up a live set and render without a master track plug,
so going back at a later date shouldn't be any issue if you save the file.
to clarify, i'm writing here to get the negatives of adding a plug and mastering
after mixing, but before rendering... not during the mix process itself.
so, if you are not maxing out cpu, is there major error correction going on if you choose to add a master buss plug after getting your mix together?
thanks for the patience, jut trying to get the facts...

fixed_up · Post by **fixed_up** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:01 am

Tarekith wrote:
http://tarekith.com/assets/mastering.html

PLEASE read this. It's the first thing I've read about mastering that is helpful and easy to understand.

All hail the Tarekith one

Superchibisan · Post by **Superchibisan** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:06 am

let me just reiterate

anytime you use a limiter/mastering plugin, it introduces character. this character cannot be removed. so if it ends up sounding like crap, it can't be undone. completely pointless. get better at mixing and leave mastering to those who understand it.

not to mention it trains your ears wrong. you'll get much different impressions of what frequencies do if you constantly mix through compressors and limiters.

as for the old school days, yes, they do mix through compressors. but its really an option. and its an option i'd rather leave to the professionals.