4:33 - True Minimal, or the most absurd thing ever?

forge · Post by **forge** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:19 am

RePeter wrote:
Machinesworking wrote:
Honestly I thought it was a joke too when I first heard about it, but if you pay attention to the noise around you with an open mind, you can hear beauty there. .
All I can hear is a bingo caller and a noisy server!

that's still music, depending on your perspective

kaffein · Post by **kaffein** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:26 am

I think it's great.

I just wouldn't buy it.

pucklermuskau · Post by **pucklermuskau** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:09 am

I just wouldn't buy it.

and let's then pause for a moment to reflect that all the things that make sound and music so pleasing and remarkable have nothing to do with economic gain or transaction. If reality forces us to make a buck off our creations, then so be it, but to claim that some piece of work is only valid if it is worth money is a complete mockery.

kaffein · Post by **kaffein** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:17 am

pucklermuskau wrote:
I just wouldn't buy it.
and let's then pause for a moment to reflect that all the things that make sound and music so pleasing and remarkable have nothing to do with economic gain or transaction. If reality forces us to make a buck off our creations, then so be it, but to claim that some piece of work is only valid if it is worth money is a complete mockery.

But, I recognize its validity and know he made it not for monetary gain.

Take a joke.

pucklermuskau · Post by **pucklermuskau** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:17 am

ya, not meant to be snarky.:]
I suppose the thing that really bugs me is all the discussion surrounding the act of selling or owning a work of silence. 4'33'' is basically a rebuttal to structured and orchestrated approaches to music. Its a matter of context, and of random happenstance. Any visceral enjoyment of a length of recorded silence in a piece is due to the nature of the environment in which it is reenacted. Its a bloody paradigm shift, the shift towards holistic musical approaches, the recognition that everything is music, even our responses to it. It's obviously an important work in and of itself, but the essence of its point demands we allow for derivative and cumulative work. Hanging this guy batt out to dry in the courts for what amounts to a citation is fairly ludicrous. Imagine if einstein had held a patent on the general theory? You can't expect to retain control over statements about the essential nature of the system.

SuperBassMexican · Post by **SuperBassMexican** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:07 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN-04ZvceLY

SuperBassMexican · Post by **SuperBassMexican** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:08 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN-04ZvceLY

kaffein · Post by **kaffein** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:15 pm

SuperBassMexican wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN-04ZvceLY

...and I raise you one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGwonG3iGaI

UKRuss · Post by **UKRuss** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:41 pm

I liked it.

Particularly the hatz. Snappy in their absence with such an amazing top end sheen and an oaky after taste. Slightly feminine. I am getting a hint of peach.

Mmmmm, great.

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:51 pm

thesmallisbeautiful wrote:The fact is that some things require a bit more of an investment to understand. Cage did not write music that was supposed to be "catchy" or "have a good beat" or whatever. It's not the kind of thing that makes sense instantly. I'm personally glad that people out there are still willing to make art that isn't immediately accessible but has a depth to it. There are fantastic ideas in his work, and the fact that you found one performance on youtube that seems funny to you when you invest 30 seconds of your life into it hardly negates what the man did.

Maybe you would like to live in a world where people only make the kind of art that you already like, or with subtle variations on it for the rest of eternity. I personally would rather live in one where people are brave enough to try things that are completely different from what you expect. It's where we get our cultural masterpieces. The need for immediacy in art leads to the situation we now have where people are only interested in listening to a short, repetitive, catchy song for a few months at most and then moving on to another almost identical short, repetitive, catchy song. I find that when you take a step back, that world is far more laughable than the world of Cage's music.

Plus one, plus one!

SubFunk · Post by **SubFunk** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:23 pm

noisetonepause wrote:
thesmallisbeautiful wrote:The fact is that some things require a bit more of an investment to understand. Cage did not write music that was supposed to be "catchy" or "have a good beat" or whatever. It's not the kind of thing that makes sense instantly. I'm personally glad that people out there are still willing to make art that isn't immediately accessible but has a depth to it. There are fantastic ideas in his work, and the fact that you found one performance on youtube that seems funny to you when you invest 30 seconds of your life into it hardly negates what the man did.

Maybe you would like to live in a world where people only make the kind of art that you already like, or with subtle variations on it for the rest of eternity. I personally would rather live in one where people are brave enough to try things that are completely different from what you expect. It's where we get our cultural masterpieces. The need for immediacy in art leads to the situation we now have where people are only interested in listening to a short, repetitive, catchy song for a few months at most and then moving on to another almost identical short, repetitive, catchy song. I find that when you take a step back, that world is far more laughable than the world of Cage's music.
Plus one, plus one!

hard to say it any better

crumhorn · Post by **crumhorn** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:58 pm

thesmallisbeautiful wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKiQYxepV2A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYsx5Di3bso

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcHnL7aS64Y

4:33 - True Minimal, or the most absurd thing ever?

Re: 4:33 - True Minimal, or the most absurd thing ever?