Why write songs?

[logic_user99]

The word 'song' is thrown around so loosely these days, that I think it could just be seen a a generic term for 'piece of music that is composed by an individual or group'.

It's like iPod to MP3 player...!

Am looking forward to constructing some interesting musical vignettes when I get home! Got some patch programming to do...

[dysanfel]

There's something quite satisfying about the happy mistakes that happpen whilst jamming; even if you don't record them, they always have a tendency to come back around!

That is what we called back in the day 'Noodling'. Noodling may be fun, but its unproductive and unpleasant to anyone else other than the Noodler, or insane fans you have gained through writing songs that became popular. Then again, to each their own....

[gjm]

There's something quite satisfying about the happy mistakes that happpen whilst jamming; even if you don't record them, they always have a tendency to come back around!

That is what we called back in the day 'Noodling'. Noodling may be fun, but its unproductive and unpleasant to anyone else other than the Noodler, or insane fans you have gained through writing songs that became popular. Then again, to each their own....

From a guitar playing point of view, noodling, at least for me, is always how I get started on a new tune, and how I evolve said tune. Noddle away and whadayaknow, a nice little hook arrives. Work it, work it, work it and then the evolution starts. Build away lego style. The distracting part for you electronic musicians can often be not the actual sound, but the work that can go into making the sound sit and move inside your track.

As a player of a 'traditional' instrument, said instrument is dead if I don't pick it up and play it. By starting with the basic instruments sound, the sound that the instrument itself produces (no processing), you can be less distracted by processing and more focused on the structure of the noodling. It can start quite randomly but very quickly a logical structure is built and beginning, middle and ends are created. You also find that you have to stick to some of the fundamental musical concepts like Key, related minors, scale etc. for noodling to make sense when starting from an actual traditional instrument. Its often these things that create the biggest structural movement/passage for the music you create, hence beginning, mid's and ends etc.

Sometimes when I listen to electronic music I get the impression that the equivalent production on a traditional instrument (stripped of its processing) would equate to someone just playing A minor on a guitar for 7 min's with no variation of strum or arpeggio. I know that processing is a major trademark for the genre, but it might help the composer see his/her music in a different light if they occasionally played the core elements of their tune on a traditional non processed instrument, if at all possible. Each to their own

[went to the gypsy]

songs are samples of the soundtrack of life.

cheers!
-wttg-

[rbro]

This is an interesting discussion. I think there are a lot of barriers with regards to music that are waiting to be broken down. We've become too accustomed to music divided up into songs/tracks and albums/cds. Who says that's the way it's gotta be? Especially nowadays with the internets and everything. 7 minutes? How about a 7 hour or 7 day long piece? Think out of the box!

[Lo-Fi Massahkah]

I think that there's a problem in that music today is more about recording and releasing rather than playing (both as in performing your instrument and what kids do).

This is new. About 50 or 60 years. Tops. Before that music was about singing and playing as a way of communication. Aimed at a fairly close circle of humans around you.

I think that in this light - noodling and improv are most valid forms of musical expression. It might not be songs with a structure that is recognizable and thereby commercial. But I think that constantly seeing commercial structures and music as recordnings/releases is what might kill music.

Noodle away!

.m

[skipkent]

If you can't bash out the chords on a guitar or piano while singing the tune/lyrics then it's not a song...

I have always referred to that as 'the Campfire Test'... ; )

Still, there is ample room for Pieces, Performances, Experiments and so on.

For songwriting (guitar, bass, vocals) I think Live is great. Jam on ideas in session, lay it all out in arrangement. Create a folder of simple midi drum tracks to use instead of the metronome. Open a new project, drag in a drum track, enable recording and you're off.

I like to use just one channel for recording the whole time, and then drag the recorded clips to wherever I want them to go 'rhythm guitar', 'lead', 'bass', whatever.

Very quick, very easy, Live stays out of my way but is always there when I need something!

[skipkent]

From a guitar playing point of view, noodling, at least for me, is always how I get started on a new tune, and how I evolve said tune. Noddle away and whadayaknow, a nice little hook arrives. Work it, work it, work it and then the evolution starts. Build away lego style. The distracting part for you electronic musicians can often be not the actual sound, but the work that can go into making the sound sit and move inside your track.

On noodling for synths, I recall an interview I read with Chris Vrenna of NIN, and he mentioned how, when he was at the writing stage, he would stick with just generic midi piano sounds for all the parts in his composition. He did this to focus on the melodic effect of the song without getting mired in presets and tweaking.

Then, when he had something that held his interest with just those basic sounds, he would start focusing on the sounds themselves, and start tweaking synths and so on.

I think this approach is a direct parallel to recording your guitar (or whatever) 'dry' and just working on the structure of the song, rather than getting lost in the endless digression of hunting for the 'right' tone, and then trying to write a song from there, deciding you hate that tone and going back to tweaking your tone again, losing the flow and so on.

Once the song begins to take shape, you'll have a much better idea of what sounds and sonic colors will be most appropriate. If you're not a super-tweaker yourself but have a structure that you like, then that's a great point to start collaborating with someone else who knows a little more.

[Lo-Fi Massahkah]

Sure - from a traditional song-writing point of view - writing on a piano only is most valid.

But alot of electronic / experimental music is more about structures, textures and timbres than about harmony. Sound is part of the composition.

.m

[briandervish]

Hey! I'm one of the unwashed Beatport masses!

[JAMM]

i make complete songs with an beginning and end for my liveband
Remixing for some music and artprojects
loops voor DJing
sounddesign for theater and television


so it depends for which purpose

[xherv]

Personally I like to 'freeze' all session view possibilities, after experimenting a little bit into arrangement view, to have a complete song. That's the way I feel music I'm not the goes on forever kind, expect you have to create a randomly generated music piece for an exhibition, primarily permanent pictures or tech exhibit.
So yes, writing music the 'old' way is still something I like to do.

- Best
- Pasha

My problem is I'm never done tweaking before freezing XD . . . Would be interested to hear how people transition from the inventive part to the editing part, as I find myself with about 10 tracks that are all missing like one thing - I meant to finish them all, I swear. Do you just say enough is enough and lock it down?

[weeddigger]

"Why Write songs?"


Cause if I don't, I might just cause a rift in the space-time continuum...



...



I do like the idea of improv type music with loops and sounds I've created, but, lol... I'm more of a DJ there... I want to create a piece of music that will stay the same, and can be used by other DJ's to take people where I would want them to go.

That being said, I think I'm eventually going to be using both Live and Traktor to spin my tunes, for a lot more freedom than just Traktor.

[jbone1313]

I love this forum.

[crumhorn]

If you can't bash out the chords on a guitar or piano while singing the tune/lyrics then it's not a song...

I have always referred to that as 'the Campfire Test'... ; )

Still, there is ample room for Pieces, Performances, Experiments and so on.

For songwriting (guitar, bass, vocals) I think Live is great. Jam on ideas in session, lay it all out in arrangement. Create a folder of simple midi drum tracks to use instead of the metronome. Open a new project, drag in a drum track, enable recording and you're off.

I like to use just one channel for recording the whole time, and then drag the recorded clips to wherever I want them to go 'rhythm guitar', 'lead', 'bass', whatever.

Very quick, very easy, Live stays out of my way but is always there when I need something!

Artistically anything goes. But i think it is right to try to protect the definition of the word song. For me the essence of a song is a tune with words and to a lesser extent harmonic structures that go with it. And all these elements are open to interpretation which makes it even harder to pin down. Songs can also become cultural artefacts that live on in folk memory long after the people who wrote them are dead. What could be better that to have created such a thing.

Anything beyond these basics and what you have is an arrangement or production of the song. Wildly different productions can still be recognisable as the same song.

Take away the singing and it's not a song any longer it's something else. There are plenty of words to describe these other types of music.

So to me the question is why do "write" music as opposed to just improvising it. To me both approaches and anything in between are valid. Personally I like an element of both; inspired improvisation within the confines of a written musical structure.

Music at its best is a social activity so some kind of repeatability and structure is essential to allow people to participate.