Arragement/Session confusion
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Anthony Scott
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 12:43 am
I too am confused about session/arrangement views. When I load a song in to the session view to DJ with I’ll then swap over to the arrangement view but the song is not there. Please correct me if I’m wrong but I thought that if I loaded a song in to one view I would be able to see the song in the other view also. Are these views independent of each other or do they work together?
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logicat2001
- Posts: 159
- Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2003 3:08 pm
By default, the only thing the two views have in common is the track layout; that's it. This means that you can actually have two completely different sets of audio, one in Session view, one in Arrange view.
It's like you have two completely different sequencers running on the same machine, except they are synchronized.
Best,
Logicat
It's like you have two completely different sequencers running on the same machine, except they are synchronized.
Best,
Logicat
Logic 7 Pro | MetaSynth | Unix | Live
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mike holiday
- Posts: 2433
- Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 8:52 pm
- Location: NOW
session is for sessioning(jamming) and arrange is for arrangeing!Anthony Scott wrote:I too am confused about session/arrangement views. When I load a song in to the session view to DJ with I’ll then swap over to the arrangement view but the song is not there. Please correct me if I’m wrong but I thought that if I loaded a song in to one view I would be able to see the song in the other view also. Are these views independent of each other or do they work together?
once you get your session sorted you can record it into an arrangement!
use clips to record audio into ableton
you can use the clip for automation or arranger (mixer) for automation,
once the clip is recorded into arrange what you effect in the clip in the arrange view wont effecet the clip in session view and vise versa
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Anthony Scott
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 12:43 am
So let me get this straight…..I would use session view to DJ with if I was just improvising a set and arrangement view to plan out and record a set? Lets say I’m mixing tracks in session view but I wanted to then take what I have been doing and move them over to arrangement view…..how would I go about it?
Sorry for such basic questions…..I really appreciate the help!!!
Sorry for such basic questions…..I really appreciate the help!!!
Session view is for triggering clips in real time (live). Clips can be loops, or one shot.
You can trigger any single clip in a track by itself, or simultaneously trigger any number of loops along your tracks (horizontally). You can also trigger an entire row of clips at once, in a scene (horizontal row)
However, can only trigger one clip per track (vertically, column) at a time.
The arrangement view is a time line, like Cubase or Logic etc. Rows in the arrangement view correspond to tracks (columns) in the session view.
There is an arrangement view track for every track in the session view. Same track, represented differently. So the same EFX chain is in the arrange view as it is in session.
You trigger loops live in session, and record your triggering "session" (hence the name) into the arrange view. Then you can modify and tweak your newly recorded arrangement in the arrange view.
If you're playing live, you really are not going to use the arrange view much - normally. Arrange view is for arranging, structure, producing finished pieces.
The reason why the red arrange button comes up is - once you have an arrangement playing - and you change any value in session - it lights up to let you know you are hearing something different than what you recorded in the arrangement.
Once you click it and the red light goes off - you are hearing your arrangement again. Simple, but it took me a while to get my head around that and figure out exactly why and how that worked too.
You can trigger any single clip in a track by itself, or simultaneously trigger any number of loops along your tracks (horizontally). You can also trigger an entire row of clips at once, in a scene (horizontal row)
However, can only trigger one clip per track (vertically, column) at a time.
The arrangement view is a time line, like Cubase or Logic etc. Rows in the arrangement view correspond to tracks (columns) in the session view.
There is an arrangement view track for every track in the session view. Same track, represented differently. So the same EFX chain is in the arrange view as it is in session.
You trigger loops live in session, and record your triggering "session" (hence the name) into the arrange view. Then you can modify and tweak your newly recorded arrangement in the arrange view.
If you're playing live, you really are not going to use the arrange view much - normally. Arrange view is for arranging, structure, producing finished pieces.
The reason why the red arrange button comes up is - once you have an arrangement playing - and you change any value in session - it lights up to let you know you are hearing something different than what you recorded in the arrangement.
Once you click it and the red light goes off - you are hearing your arrangement again. Simple, but it took me a while to get my head around that and figure out exactly why and how that worked too.
Basically, yeah. If you had a complete arrrangement mapped out, and you let the arrange view play that live by itself, you might as well just throw on a CD and walk awayAnthony Scott wrote:So let me get this straight…..I would use session view to DJ with if I was just improvising a set and arrangement view to plan out and record a set?
The "live" part comes from triggering clips in session view .. whatever those clips may be.
Lets say I’m mixing tracks in session view but I wanted to then take what I have been doing and move them over to arrangement view…..how would I go about it?
Sorry for such basic questions…..I really appreciate the help!!!
To record into arrange view from firing session clips, use the record button on top of the screen. Live will start drawing rows of clips into the arrange view. Keep firing clips and moving parameters in the session view. Live will record everything you do.
When you're done, hit stop. Then hit play. Your arrangement will play back - starting at the play position marker - exactly the way you recorded it.
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Anthony Scott
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 12:43 am
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logicat2001
- Posts: 159
- Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2003 3:08 pm
Anthony,Lets say I’m mixing tracks in session view but I wanted to then take what I have been doing and move them over to arrangement view…..how would I go about it?
I believe it's time you started working with the manual and Ableton's tutorial links. All your answers are there.
Best,
Logicat
Logic 7 Pro | MetaSynth | Unix | Live
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Anthony Scott
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 12:43 am
Thanks so much for your help!!!!logicat2001 wrote:Anthony,Lets say I’m mixing tracks in session view but I wanted to then take what I have been doing and move them over to arrangement view…..how would I go about it?
I believe it's time you started working with the manual and Ableton's tutorial links. All your answers are there.
Best,
Logicat
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DJ Precious
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 2:58 pm
- Location: NYC
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logicat2001
- Posts: 159
- Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2003 3:08 pm
Hey Anthony,Thanks so much for your help!!!!
I was just being honest! You'll figure it out for sure; you're definitely asking lots of good questions. I was simply suggesting that you take some of the good suggestions in this thread and try again for a few days.
Don't try to create anything special, but do hack away and keep learning it all bit by bit. After a week or so, come back and continue to ask these questions. I guarantee that your questions will get more and more specific as you begin to understand the possibilities that Live offers.
BTW, if I'm browsing this site, OSXAudio, or Sonikmatter, I'll always try and help when I can (always as Logicat2001). I most definitely wasn't trying to be a smart ass.
Best regards,
Logicat
Logic 7 Pro | MetaSynth | Unix | Live
Damn!
So i was messing around and poking around and I kinda of got the concept. Maybe it was designed like this or maybe it wasnt, but from what i understand now, this session/arragement multiplies your creative edge by a couple of hundred.
I guess, from my experience, its a weird concept to grasp. You just have to mess around with the different views and you will understand how you can use them.
Thanks for your help guys!
So i was messing around and poking around and I kinda of got the concept. Maybe it was designed like this or maybe it wasnt, but from what i understand now, this session/arragement multiplies your creative edge by a couple of hundred.
I guess, from my experience, its a weird concept to grasp. You just have to mess around with the different views and you will understand how you can use them.
Thanks for your help guys!
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logicat2001
- Posts: 159
- Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2003 3:08 pm
Here's something that might help someone begin to "get" the way Arrange and Session work.
- Go to the session view and load a small number of clips from one genre of music: dance, electronic, hip hop, classical, rock, instrumental. Doesn't matter what it is, but make some audio clips from one style of music.
- Now: don't record anything, but use the warp and loop markers to get a few of those clips playing simultaneously. Nothing fabulous, but something interesting.
- When you've got a set you like, save the group to a single scene so you can trigger them with one click on the appropriate scene button.
- Stop the transport and switch to the Arrange view.
- This time, pick a small number of audio files and drag them to the Arrange tracks. Make sure to pick a style of music that has absolutely nothing to do with what you played in Session view.
- Work them a bit to manage some sound that is basic but pleasing.
- Keep the transport playing and switch back to the Session view.
- Trigger the scene you created originally.
- You should find that your Arrangement stops playing completely, and has been replaced with the scene (ie. the clips) that you created at the start. It will play just like you set it up originally, in tempo (or out of tempo depending on what you managed to concoct.)
- Look up at the Transport and notice that there's a red icon that wasn't there before. That's the "Return to Arrange" button. Wait a few moments and when you're ready, press it.
- What happened? What's playing now? Switch to the Arrange view and try to figure out why you can (or can't) hear any audio. If you don't hear anything, move the transport to a point in your Arrangement where there's audio to hear. Set up a loop so you don't have to worry about the music suddenly going silent.
- Switch back to Session view and trigger a single audio clip. Make sure not to trigger the entire scene; just a single track's audio or MIDI clip.
- Notice that the "Return to Arrange" button has gone red again. That indicates that you're no longer playing the audio that exists at that point in time in the Arrange window, but some combination of what exists in either/both the Arrange and Session views.
- Whenever you feel like you need to return to a "known" point in time in your music, you can simply click the "Return to Arrange" button, or trigger a scene in Session view.
- Rinse, Repeat: Delete all your audio (if you now think you could do better), and start in either view with a bunch of source material that's more interesting. Go through these steps again, this time trying to build up a combination of Arrange elements and Session elements that are available to you at the same time.
- Notice how it's almost like having a multi-dimensional DAW; you've got two separate GUI's to use to interact with your audio, and they can be as related or unrelated as you care to make them.
- Realize that you can always start in Session view, hit the record button, and end up with instant material in your Arrange view. Try recording some nonsense from the Session view, then revisit some of the steps above to try switching between both views, and triggering scenes, clips and the "Return to Arrange" button in turn.
- Rinse, Repeat.
There's so much more you can do. You can easily move huge sections of audio between each views via drag and drop. You can instantly move a set of clips from the Arrange to Session and drop them either horizontally across tracks or vertically as clips in one track using a simple modifier key. There's so very much you can do.
I hope the above is helpful, and not just meandering babble. The potential that these two completely separate view offer is quite unique and inspiring. You've got to break out of old habits and assumptions first, though.
Remember: the only thing that will always be true between the Arrange and Session views, is the track layout. This means: how many MIDI tracks, how many Audio tracks, what plugin-ins and bussing exists on each, what audio routing has been defined in each. Other that that, the actual content in each view can be the same or completely different, related or unrelated, in synch or obtuse.
Best,
Logicat
- Go to the session view and load a small number of clips from one genre of music: dance, electronic, hip hop, classical, rock, instrumental. Doesn't matter what it is, but make some audio clips from one style of music.
- Now: don't record anything, but use the warp and loop markers to get a few of those clips playing simultaneously. Nothing fabulous, but something interesting.
- When you've got a set you like, save the group to a single scene so you can trigger them with one click on the appropriate scene button.
- Stop the transport and switch to the Arrange view.
- This time, pick a small number of audio files and drag them to the Arrange tracks. Make sure to pick a style of music that has absolutely nothing to do with what you played in Session view.
- Work them a bit to manage some sound that is basic but pleasing.
- Keep the transport playing and switch back to the Session view.
- Trigger the scene you created originally.
- You should find that your Arrangement stops playing completely, and has been replaced with the scene (ie. the clips) that you created at the start. It will play just like you set it up originally, in tempo (or out of tempo depending on what you managed to concoct.)
- Look up at the Transport and notice that there's a red icon that wasn't there before. That's the "Return to Arrange" button. Wait a few moments and when you're ready, press it.
- What happened? What's playing now? Switch to the Arrange view and try to figure out why you can (or can't) hear any audio. If you don't hear anything, move the transport to a point in your Arrangement where there's audio to hear. Set up a loop so you don't have to worry about the music suddenly going silent.
- Switch back to Session view and trigger a single audio clip. Make sure not to trigger the entire scene; just a single track's audio or MIDI clip.
- Notice that the "Return to Arrange" button has gone red again. That indicates that you're no longer playing the audio that exists at that point in time in the Arrange window, but some combination of what exists in either/both the Arrange and Session views.
- Whenever you feel like you need to return to a "known" point in time in your music, you can simply click the "Return to Arrange" button, or trigger a scene in Session view.
- Rinse, Repeat: Delete all your audio (if you now think you could do better), and start in either view with a bunch of source material that's more interesting. Go through these steps again, this time trying to build up a combination of Arrange elements and Session elements that are available to you at the same time.
- Notice how it's almost like having a multi-dimensional DAW; you've got two separate GUI's to use to interact with your audio, and they can be as related or unrelated as you care to make them.
- Realize that you can always start in Session view, hit the record button, and end up with instant material in your Arrange view. Try recording some nonsense from the Session view, then revisit some of the steps above to try switching between both views, and triggering scenes, clips and the "Return to Arrange" button in turn.
- Rinse, Repeat.
There's so much more you can do. You can easily move huge sections of audio between each views via drag and drop. You can instantly move a set of clips from the Arrange to Session and drop them either horizontally across tracks or vertically as clips in one track using a simple modifier key. There's so very much you can do.
I hope the above is helpful, and not just meandering babble. The potential that these two completely separate view offer is quite unique and inspiring. You've got to break out of old habits and assumptions first, though.
Remember: the only thing that will always be true between the Arrange and Session views, is the track layout. This means: how many MIDI tracks, how many Audio tracks, what plugin-ins and bussing exists on each, what audio routing has been defined in each. Other that that, the actual content in each view can be the same or completely different, related or unrelated, in synch or obtuse.
Best,
Logicat
Logic 7 Pro | MetaSynth | Unix | Live
"It seems to me, Mr Anderson that you are living 2 lives!"
I see the session view as the main tool. Where I play.
The arr view is the "log" of what I played when Rec was on.
After stoping, the arr view is separate from session. I can change everything in both of them without effecting the other.
The views share the same output lines (FX on tracks and send)
"One of these lives has a future..."
Still, when I press play the arr is playing as default unless I stop or change one or more tracks in session.
C
I see the session view as the main tool. Where I play.
The arr view is the "log" of what I played when Rec was on.
After stoping, the arr view is separate from session. I can change everything in both of them without effecting the other.
The views share the same output lines (FX on tracks and send)
"One of these lives has a future..."
Still, when I press play the arr is playing as default unless I stop or change one or more tracks in session.
C
>>
MacBook Pro 2,4 GHz, 3 Gb Ram, OS X 10.6.8
Novation Ultranova, Launchpad, Nocturn
MOTU Ultralite
Elektron Machinedrum + Monomachine
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OTO Biscuit
MacBook Pro 2,4 GHz, 3 Gb Ram, OS X 10.6.8
Novation Ultranova, Launchpad, Nocturn
MOTU Ultralite
Elektron Machinedrum + Monomachine
Future Retro XS
OTO Biscuit
