DJ Master Channel Racks, Chains, and Plugins

Trypset · Post by **Trypset** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:38 pm

What is everyone doing to get the best sound of of Live while DJing? I am solely talking about the master channel.

Xp64bit
1.5GB RAM
Live 7
Korg ES-1 MKII
Microkorg
Edirol FA-101 Firewire Sound

Since forever i was using the ableton preset...."DJ Master Channel"

at my last gig a fan/patron said he uses ableton and has long since found better master channel combinations for cleaner none clipping sound on a phat club system. After researching i have now switched to a chaing containing this

Auto Filter->Utility Plug(Set to -1 dB gain)->BuzMaxi3 (A brick limiter vst)

I can notice the difference in cleaner sound without even playing out, just on my home monitors.

What are some combos you guys use or some products that can make the sound cleaner and warmer?? I also aquired PSP Vintage Warmer 2 but have yet to eff with it. Thanks,

TrypseT

on the google

Trypset · Post by **Trypset** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:06 pm

Like the Ozone 3......all of their products? I just got Ozone 3 and will start learning it as well

Trypset · Post by **Trypset** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:39 am

i thought this topic would blow up......if not thats okay, but there has to be more than myself who is concerned/ looking for info on this

even a point in a direction with information at the end would be awesome.

thanks.

Mike Goodwin · Post by **Mike Goodwin** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:33 am

I put nothing on my master channel. The venue should deal with that. If I where to put something on there it would most likley be a very light touch of sompthing like the Waves SSL stereo buss compressor as it sounds good with out adding any latency.

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:15 am

Nothing on my master channel either.

Trypset · Post by **Trypset** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:27 am

ok....not the answers i was expecting but very informative.....i might be trying to find answers to problems i only think exist.

Most of the gigs i play and will play in the future until i get more credit.....the sound guy might as well be deaf.

Never have i ever seen a sound guy at my shows do anything but direct me to where the connections were for my gear.......i do understand this isn't the ow it should be but its what i have been able to work with. The systems however are very good...my only real judgement is playing with the master channel altered and it being "louder/crisper" and turning everything off the master channel and it being less "clear/intense".

this could probably be remedied with the master soundboard.....

but on the other hand these 3rd party products wouldn't be hundreds of dollars for no reason.....some combination will have to enhance the experience in a better programmed way.

thanks for the ideas/conversation

TrypseT

cressy · Post by **cressy** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:04 pm

I used to always put a Waves L2 on my master channel for DJing... the benefits are that mixing from one track to another is easier, as the levels get evened out. Also, obviously, it means you never clip. And yeah, if you're playing some older tunes, they will sound a bit louder and fatter.

But... you're squishing up your dynamics using a limiter on the master channel, and if you're playing modern dance music, it'll steal all the definition on the bass.

And you can make your mixes waaaay smoother if you don't rely on a limiter to do your leveling for you.

Trypset · Post by **Trypset** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:47 pm

i am soley talking about when i DJ mp3s that i havn't altered. alot of them are different dB and just different qualities.....i was thinking something on the master channel would even everything out.

i understand that if i am producing i need to do my best to get the sound i want by solid mixing and quality samples.

Moody · Post by **Moody** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:57 pm

A groomed library would probably be your best bet for long term success. Placing a limiter anywhere in the chain for a DJ set is going to have multiple downsides with possibly only one good side and for most this would not be considered a good thing.

What is your current channel setup like? Do you have a gain plug on those channels? I believe I read and understood that you did; is this not working for you?

cressy · Post by **cressy** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:00 pm

Trypset wrote:i am soley talking about when i DJ mp3s that i havn't altered. alot of them are different dB and just different qualities.....i was thinking something on the master channel would even everything out.

i understand that if i am producing i need to do my best to get the sound i want by solid mixing and quality samples.

That's what I'm talking about too

Think about a traditional DJ with decks and records. Each record is a slightly (or sometimes very) different volume. To compensate for this, you have to learn the levels of your tunes, use your ears, and watch the levels on your mixer.

Using MP3s, you can whack a limiter on the master. This will even everything out, but it's a compromise. The louder stuff will get squished (even more than it already is!) and loose definition. The quieter stuff will loose all it's lovely dynamics (punch).

So instead, you can (and I do) get a better result from manually adjusting the DB level on your MP3 clips within ableton.

The other benefit is when you're mixing a couple of tunes togther, you really have to watch your levels. If you had a limiter on the master, you could go crazy with filters and delays for a big shwoosh-y mix. But without them, you have to be a bit more delicate. You can still do the swooshy, but it's tougher to get it right. But it'll sound better, and clearer.

BUT... It comes down to 3 things:

1 - The MP3s you're gonna play are already mastered. For them to sound their best, they shouldn't be 're-limited'. Especially if you're playing modern, loud bangers. How many Vinyl DJs have a brickwall compressor on their mixer?

2 - Loads of clubs and bars whack a limiter on their amp anyway... so some of this arguement is moot. But 2 limiters is worse than 1!

3 - We're playing songs in dark, noisy rooms, full of drunk/mashed people. It's unlikely they'll notice much anyway, so put a 20 VST chain on your master. If it sounds good to you there and then, it probably sounds awesome to the punters

Trypset · Post by **Trypset** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:22 pm

i current run 3 tracks in ableton....all set to send only.

Return A is running Reaktor FX VST with Beatlookup
Return B is running Reaktor DX VST with Beatlookup
Return C has My effect rack on it. Total of 12 differect chains to browses through and send too.

Master Channel Currently Has Autofilter->Utility->BuzMaxi Limter

I agree with what you guys are saying, very informative. Thank you.

The best piece though is the one about playing whatever I think sounds the best....it is my style. There are no set rules just ups and downs to everything. But limiting already mastered tracks makes since to me. Maybe i should just lower my individual tracks because i think why it sounds better to me with a limiter is because i might be letting them clip without one.