the other thread similarly titled grabbed my attention because I misread what it would be about and I thought what a cool idea for a thread - how people get 'into the space' required to get down to working on their music
I'm sure many remember the glass of water and wank suggestion - but what other 'tips and tricks' and ways of 'zoning in' do people have to get started?
I'm trying to get away from smoking weed which seems to be my lazy way at the moment, but a detrimental to health option, so I'd love to hear other peoples ways...
how to quickly get on with your work (part 2)
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noisetonepause
- Posts: 4938
- Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2002 3:38 pm
- Location: Sticks and stones
Pull the power on my ADSL router and turn off the mobile.
Listen to other people's music and try to nick ideas... fail miserable cos I don't have the ears for it... hope something good comes out at the other end.
Only, I haven't done anything good since 1743, which was before I was born. So, errr, bawls.
-Paws
Listen to other people's music and try to nick ideas... fail miserable cos I don't have the ears for it... hope something good comes out at the other end.
Only, I haven't done anything good since 1743, which was before I was born. So, errr, bawls.
-Paws
i've come to realize that it takes about an hour of working on music before i really get into the groove with it. It can be an hour of sequencing, jamming, drumming, dancing, whatever...just active participation...then suddenly things start clicking together and ideas flow naturally. Often i forget this about myself and get frustrated wondering why music is so difficult sometimes, but it never fails that an hour or so into it, things get much easier.
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GooseGossage
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 4:55 pm
Well, I am no musician, and I am not exactly sure what it is that you need to "zone in" on. Is it tedious sequencing? compression? or is it the actual composition? Do you have specific goals or tasks in mind or are you forcing yourself to be creative? What is it that you are trying to get done? do you have a deadline? If what you are doing involves creativity then you cannot force it. If you sit down and you are not feeling it, maybe you should get up and go pick some fruit, or clean your toilet bowl. Maybe you can try composing something completely different than what you are used to. Maybe you can just start with one particular sound and play with tha until you get something amazing and then build on it. Maybe I have no idea what it is you are having a problem with, but those are my only thoughts....
the problem is the disparity between ideas in your head and physical results - I have a billion ideas in there but when I actually sit down to do something its like not knowing how to get started...GooseGossage wrote:Well, I am no musician, and I am not exactly sure what it is that you need to "zone in" on. Is it tedious sequencing? compression? or is it the actual composition? Do you have specific goals or tasks in mind or are you forcing yourself to be creative? What is it that you are trying to get done? do you have a deadline? If what you are doing involves creativity then you cannot force it. If you sit down and you are not feeling it, maybe you should get up and go pick some fruit, or clean your toilet bowl. Maybe you can try composing something completely different than what you are used to. Maybe you can just start with one particular sound and play with tha until you get something amazing and then build on it. Maybe I have no idea what it is you are having a problem with, but those are my only thoughts....
that's my main 'problem' although the thread was more about getting the discussion going on how eveyone takes that first step in the day - the main thread now seems to be over on the general forum now as I double posted!
inspiration
I find that I often have a simillar problem, Forge.
I've got bits and pieces of songs in my head and I have difficulty putting them all together, and it's frustrating. I think that ethios may be on to something, in that it takes a while sitting at the machine to kind of get into the groove.
What I have often done in the past is load all my material up on to my laptop and take it somewhere where there are people. I'm really wanting to make danceable tracks, and I find that if I'm just around more people and activity, that sometimes helps.
I also find that it's difficult to work in a vaccum. perhaps you could find a collaborator, or someone to work with, that also can be very helpful.
I'd love to hear other people's techniques for getting fired up and inspired...
I've got bits and pieces of songs in my head and I have difficulty putting them all together, and it's frustrating. I think that ethios may be on to something, in that it takes a while sitting at the machine to kind of get into the groove.
What I have often done in the past is load all my material up on to my laptop and take it somewhere where there are people. I'm really wanting to make danceable tracks, and I find that if I'm just around more people and activity, that sometimes helps.
I also find that it's difficult to work in a vaccum. perhaps you could find a collaborator, or someone to work with, that also can be very helpful.
I'd love to hear other people's techniques for getting fired up and inspired...
Re: inspiration
thanks! that's a good tip (busy places) there was a time where for a while when I was working in London in an Audio Visual department me and a mate used to load reason, sound forge and Acid on the work laptops (before the live days) and we'd bash away between jobs or at lunch and it was great - actually got the bare bones of all 3 of the tracks I've acutually had signed that way! So there could be something in that!djdrue wrote:I find that I often have a simillar problem, Forge.
I've got bits and pieces of songs in my head and I have difficulty putting them all together, and it's frustrating. I think that ethios may be on to something, in that it takes a while sitting at the machine to kind of get into the groove.
What I have often done in the past is load all my material up on to my laptop and take it somewhere where there are people. I'm really wanting to make danceable tracks, and I find that if I'm just around more people and activity, that sometimes helps.
I also find that it's difficult to work in a vaccum. perhaps you could find a collaborator, or someone to work with, that also can be very helpful.
I'd love to hear other people's techniques for getting fired up and inspired...
My problem now is definitely not a lack of inspiration - far from it - rather a difficulty in staying focused long enough to keep on track and not get distracted and torn in a million different directions - hence the usual use of weed, with which the earth could be shaking and I wouldnt notice or care because all that exists in my world is the tunage!
One thing I've definitely learned is: when I feel uninspired, don't just sit looking at the screen (you'll inevitably start browsing the web)...
When I used to just play guitar (before pure electronic music) i'd keep practicing, but sometimes that just concretes your fingers in to certain patterns and that can be a bitch to undo if you do it too much. I remember a friend of mine who is a concert violinist. He can hear any melody and transcribe it for you, but he'll never jam. He lost that ability through overschooling in my opinion.
Jump up, go out with friends, see live music, go for a walk, talk to a girlfriend... try to stay alive.. that's where the best inspiration comes from.
When I used to just play guitar (before pure electronic music) i'd keep practicing, but sometimes that just concretes your fingers in to certain patterns and that can be a bitch to undo if you do it too much. I remember a friend of mine who is a concert violinist. He can hear any melody and transcribe it for you, but he'll never jam. He lost that ability through overschooling in my opinion.
Jump up, go out with friends, see live music, go for a walk, talk to a girlfriend... try to stay alive.. that's where the best inspiration comes from.
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subbasshead
- Posts: 451
- Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2002 8:30 am
- Location: wellington, new zealand
a suggestion
i think tapping into your muse, getting in the flow
or whatever u want to call it isnt just a problem
for musicians/ableton users - its an issue for every creator
maybe u should do a wee bit of research in other fields
& see some approaches that are easily translateable
eg read the book
The Art of War
by steven pressfield
its aimed at writers but is very relevant
another is
Free Play - improvisation in life & art
by Stephen Nachmanovitch
The Listening Book
by W.A.Mathieu
check them out
this can also be inspiring
http://www.wisdomquotes.com/cat_creativity.html
http://www.worldofquotes.com/topic/Creativity/1/
some examples
Albert Einstein:
You can never solve a problem on the level on which it was created.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
If I were not a physicist, I would probably be a musician. I often think in music. I live my daydreams in music. I see my life in terms of music.
Arthur Koestler:
Creativity is a type of learning process where the teacher and pupil are located in the same individual.
Buckminster Fuller:
When I am working on a problem I never think about beauty. I only think about how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong.
Edward de Bono:
It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.
Erich Fromm:
Conditions for creativity are to be puzzled; to concentrate; to accept conflict and tension; to be born everyday; to feel a sense of self.
Linus Pauling:
The best way to have a good idea is to have lots of ideas.
Margaret J. Wheatley:
The things we fear most in organizations -- fluctuations, disturbances, imbalances -- are the primary sources of creativity.
Nietzsche:
You need chaos in your soul to give birth to a dancing star.
Pablo Picasso:
All children are artists. The problem is how to remain an artist once you grow up.
Saul Steinberg:
The life of the creative man is lead, directed and controlled by boredom. Avoiding boredom is one of our most important purposes.
Theodore Adorno:
A successful work of art is not one which resolves contradictions in a spurious harmony, but one which expresses the idea of harmony negatively by embodying the contradictions, pure and uncompromised, in its innermost structure.
Virginia Woolf:
It is worth mentioning, for future reference, that the creative power which bubbles so pleasantly in beginning a new book (or tune!) quiets down after a time, and one goes on more steadily. Doubts creep in. Then one becomes resigned. Determination not to give in, and the sense of an impending shape keep one at it more than anything.
Miles Davis
Don't play what's there, play what's not there.
Gilbert George
We try not to have ideas, preferring accidents. To create, you must empty yourself of every artistic thought.
Chalres Chic Thompson
Top 10 Creative Rules of Thumb:
1. The best way to get great ideas is to get lots of ideas and throw the bad ones away.
2. Create ideas that are 15 minutes ahead of their time...not light years ahead.
3. Always look for a second right answer.
4. If at first you don't succeed, take a break.
5. Write down your ideas before you forget them.
6. If everyone says you are wrong, you're one step ahead. If everyone laughs at you, you're two steps ahead.
7. The answer to your problem "pre-exists." You need to ask the right question to reveal the answer.
8. When you ask a dumb question, you get a smart answer.
9. Never solve a problem from its original perspective.
10. Visualize your problem as solved before solving it.
Frank Goble
Because of their courage, their lack of fear, they (creative people) are willing to make silly mistakes. The truly creative person is one who can think crazy; such a person knows full well that many of his great ideas will prove to be worthless. The creative person is flexible -- he is able to change as the situation changes, to break habits, to face indecision and changes in conditions without undue stress. He is not threatened by the unexpected as rigid, inflexible people are.
Mark Twain
Man was made at the end of the week's work when God was tired.
Charles Browder
The good ideas are all hammered out in agony by individuals, not spewed out by groups.
Mary Lou Cook
Creativity is inventing, experimenting, growing, taking risks, breaking rules, making mistakes, and having fun.
De Chateaubriand
An original writer is not one who imitates nobody, but one whom nobody can imitate.
E. L. Doctorow
It's like driving a car at night. You never see further than your headlights, but you can make the whole trip that way.
F. Scott Fitzgerald
There are no days in life so memorable as those which vibrated to some stroke of the imagination.
and my $.05 on smoking ganja - its an easy shortcut
but music eventualy exists in reality for other people
so if u r gonna smoke all the time & make music
then u better make sure u check yr work back in reality some time
personally i also find ganja gives me a flood of ideas
which is great, but thats the easy part
sifting through the ideas & focusing them is a large part of the process
& i think ganjas not so good for that
idnetifying different stages of your process is valuable
me, i prefer nitrous oxide
its short lived, v.deep & arguably the most "acoustic" drug
sound gets all pointillistic & shit ;D
plus laughter often opens a door to solving a problem
that previously seemed impossible to solve
n20 = laughing gas tee hee hee
i also quite like listening to my mixes from another room
pref while doing something else
making music requires quietening your mind & its internal dialog
& it can be of value to also listen in that mode
in the end you have to use whatever methods you can
to trick you mind into the right state
this can be even more difficult when the space u make music in
is also your daytime work space
allow time to transition yr brain to being creative...
or whatever u want to call it isnt just a problem
for musicians/ableton users - its an issue for every creator
maybe u should do a wee bit of research in other fields
& see some approaches that are easily translateable
eg read the book
The Art of War
by steven pressfield
its aimed at writers but is very relevant
another is
Free Play - improvisation in life & art
by Stephen Nachmanovitch
The Listening Book
by W.A.Mathieu
check them out
this can also be inspiring
http://www.wisdomquotes.com/cat_creativity.html
http://www.worldofquotes.com/topic/Creativity/1/
some examples
Albert Einstein:
You can never solve a problem on the level on which it was created.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
If I were not a physicist, I would probably be a musician. I often think in music. I live my daydreams in music. I see my life in terms of music.
Arthur Koestler:
Creativity is a type of learning process where the teacher and pupil are located in the same individual.
Buckminster Fuller:
When I am working on a problem I never think about beauty. I only think about how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong.
Edward de Bono:
It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.
Erich Fromm:
Conditions for creativity are to be puzzled; to concentrate; to accept conflict and tension; to be born everyday; to feel a sense of self.
Linus Pauling:
The best way to have a good idea is to have lots of ideas.
Margaret J. Wheatley:
The things we fear most in organizations -- fluctuations, disturbances, imbalances -- are the primary sources of creativity.
Nietzsche:
You need chaos in your soul to give birth to a dancing star.
Pablo Picasso:
All children are artists. The problem is how to remain an artist once you grow up.
Saul Steinberg:
The life of the creative man is lead, directed and controlled by boredom. Avoiding boredom is one of our most important purposes.
Theodore Adorno:
A successful work of art is not one which resolves contradictions in a spurious harmony, but one which expresses the idea of harmony negatively by embodying the contradictions, pure and uncompromised, in its innermost structure.
Virginia Woolf:
It is worth mentioning, for future reference, that the creative power which bubbles so pleasantly in beginning a new book (or tune!) quiets down after a time, and one goes on more steadily. Doubts creep in. Then one becomes resigned. Determination not to give in, and the sense of an impending shape keep one at it more than anything.
Miles Davis
Don't play what's there, play what's not there.
Gilbert George
We try not to have ideas, preferring accidents. To create, you must empty yourself of every artistic thought.
Chalres Chic Thompson
Top 10 Creative Rules of Thumb:
1. The best way to get great ideas is to get lots of ideas and throw the bad ones away.
2. Create ideas that are 15 minutes ahead of their time...not light years ahead.
3. Always look for a second right answer.
4. If at first you don't succeed, take a break.
5. Write down your ideas before you forget them.
6. If everyone says you are wrong, you're one step ahead. If everyone laughs at you, you're two steps ahead.
7. The answer to your problem "pre-exists." You need to ask the right question to reveal the answer.
8. When you ask a dumb question, you get a smart answer.
9. Never solve a problem from its original perspective.
10. Visualize your problem as solved before solving it.
Frank Goble
Because of their courage, their lack of fear, they (creative people) are willing to make silly mistakes. The truly creative person is one who can think crazy; such a person knows full well that many of his great ideas will prove to be worthless. The creative person is flexible -- he is able to change as the situation changes, to break habits, to face indecision and changes in conditions without undue stress. He is not threatened by the unexpected as rigid, inflexible people are.
Mark Twain
Man was made at the end of the week's work when God was tired.
Charles Browder
The good ideas are all hammered out in agony by individuals, not spewed out by groups.
Mary Lou Cook
Creativity is inventing, experimenting, growing, taking risks, breaking rules, making mistakes, and having fun.
De Chateaubriand
An original writer is not one who imitates nobody, but one whom nobody can imitate.
E. L. Doctorow
It's like driving a car at night. You never see further than your headlights, but you can make the whole trip that way.
F. Scott Fitzgerald
There are no days in life so memorable as those which vibrated to some stroke of the imagination.
and my $.05 on smoking ganja - its an easy shortcut
but music eventualy exists in reality for other people
so if u r gonna smoke all the time & make music
then u better make sure u check yr work back in reality some time
personally i also find ganja gives me a flood of ideas
which is great, but thats the easy part
sifting through the ideas & focusing them is a large part of the process
& i think ganjas not so good for that
idnetifying different stages of your process is valuable
me, i prefer nitrous oxide
its short lived, v.deep & arguably the most "acoustic" drug
sound gets all pointillistic & shit ;D
plus laughter often opens a door to solving a problem
that previously seemed impossible to solve
n20 = laughing gas tee hee hee
i also quite like listening to my mixes from another room
pref while doing something else
making music requires quietening your mind & its internal dialog
& it can be of value to also listen in that mode
in the end you have to use whatever methods you can
to trick you mind into the right state
this can be even more difficult when the space u make music in
is also your daytime work space
allow time to transition yr brain to being creative...
Re: a suggestion
wow man, thanks for the mage post! I've bookmarked the quotes page on my browsder toolbar! Some very cool and inspiring words there!!subbasshead wrote:i think tapping into your muse, getting in the flow
or whatever u want to call it isnt just a problem
for musicians/ableton users - its an issue for every creator
maybe u should do a wee bit of research in other fields
& see some approaches that are easily translateable
:...
I find that I'm almost always inspired by a sound, a sample, and a groove.
What happens is this groove - this sample or combination of samples - starts to play in my head. Then I start to hear the rest of it ... it comes to me.
It could be on the spot ... could be after I walk out the door .. driving in my car ... in the supermarket, wherever. But the tracks that are keepers start playing and reconstructing themselves in my imagination ..
Then ... you know ... the attempt to recreate that sound or vibe or direction that I am hearing doesnt always (rarely?) comes out exactly the way I heard it when I sit down and try and realize it.
But, what ends up happening is ... in the process of tweaking and looping and effecting and recording and trying different parts and techniques... something else comes up. Often something I hadnt anticipated.
And it works great ... gives more fodder for the track playing in my head ... and the process continues. Hopefully into the final stages of compressing and mastering and so on ...
Then other times nothing is coming. Not feeling it, the track is not inspiring, I cant get it to work, or it totally gets away from me and what I thought was good stuff turns out to be poop
So I drop those, take whatever lessons I learn with me, and maybe revisit it someday. Or maybe not. Gotta go with what you are hearing and feeling
(and yea burning the herb can definitely help! or sometimes not .. )
What happens is this groove - this sample or combination of samples - starts to play in my head. Then I start to hear the rest of it ... it comes to me.
It could be on the spot ... could be after I walk out the door .. driving in my car ... in the supermarket, wherever. But the tracks that are keepers start playing and reconstructing themselves in my imagination ..
Then ... you know ... the attempt to recreate that sound or vibe or direction that I am hearing doesnt always (rarely?) comes out exactly the way I heard it when I sit down and try and realize it.
But, what ends up happening is ... in the process of tweaking and looping and effecting and recording and trying different parts and techniques... something else comes up. Often something I hadnt anticipated.
And it works great ... gives more fodder for the track playing in my head ... and the process continues. Hopefully into the final stages of compressing and mastering and so on ...
Then other times nothing is coming. Not feeling it, the track is not inspiring, I cant get it to work, or it totally gets away from me and what I thought was good stuff turns out to be poop
So I drop those, take whatever lessons I learn with me, and maybe revisit it someday. Or maybe not. Gotta go with what you are hearing and feeling
(and yea burning the herb can definitely help! or sometimes not .. )
Inspiration / creativity
I used to write down a list of ideas of actions or processes to do in my home studio. Such as slow the tempo for the song. etc
Brian ENO wrote 'Oblique Strategies" with similar ideas - do a web search for that software. It is free. Meant to be used when you feel constricted or stuck for an idea when recording.
There is also Robert Pirsig's advice tio a student in "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance" - Write (compose) about the back of your thumb (until inspiration strikes) Or words to that effect.
Open a book at random and select a phrase to start your music.
Regards
Brian ENO wrote 'Oblique Strategies" with similar ideas - do a web search for that software. It is free. Meant to be used when you feel constricted or stuck for an idea when recording.
There is also Robert Pirsig's advice tio a student in "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance" - Write (compose) about the back of your thumb (until inspiration strikes) Or words to that effect.
Open a book at random and select a phrase to start your music.
Regards