why BUY Live?

[jez3122]

So what IS the point of buying Ableton's product?

Because it's wrong to steal........Were you dragged up by your parents!

[Tone Deft]

just saying that Live isn't for everyone. if one finds it too buggy, one should try other DAWs, it's common sense, IMO. it makes more sense than pissing and moaning about the problem to Ableton for years. fuck Ableton, do what works for YOU.

if I know that Live is going to tell me that 4 + 2 = 5, I'll know to add 3+2 instead and get on with making music. or I can make like Timur and scream bloody murder with charts and graphs and threads and in depth analysis of Live's faulty addition scheme, or I can spend that time making music with a DAW that works for me.

as far as spending money to just to get off the ground, I fear that's par for the course with DAWs these days. they've gotten so good that many of us have abandoned hardware (10 years ago I hated software, it was slow) but it's still not perfected. some people get lucky and stuff just works, others have to try a few different sound cards and tweak their systems to get good results, sucks that you've been part of the latter.

[3dot...]

Live7 release has been a bit of a trauma for me...

for 6 months I used to get BSODs using Live7 (6 was OK...)
working with support didn't help much...
after some testing...
they pointed out that it's probly a HW problem...
(usbs probly...or a faulty controller)
so I got my Laptops MB replaced to a brand new one...
(through Lenovo warranty)
it kept on crashing...but at the time I was pretty busy with other stuff so...
I didn't contintue the dialogue with the guys at support
(who really seemed like they wanted to help btw...
I've never needed much before but they really tried ... )
I figured they'd fix something under the hood...eventually
....and swallowed my pride... (...with the occasional rant on the forum)

and waddaya know?
.... 2 updates later... no more crashes ...go figure....

4 updates later Live7 is pretty stable at last...
(some quirks in the Library/Project/Set Management... new instruments hogging cpu...etc )

and those months I've been using and getting to know some other software I own better...(renoise and reaper...rrr)
which was refreshing...and fun...
that's looking at the bright side...
of course this is in retrospective...

I would be madder if I just bought 7 and not upgraded from 6...
it was frustrating working with live6 while already owning 'THE SUITE'...
I remember I JUST WANTED IT TO WORK !
so ...I can feel your anger Chris...

but...

I'm glad Ableton are taking their time with the next release...
I'll be damned if I buy it before it works...

I probly will..

[JMFOne]

It's weird but I got a cracked version of Live because I wanted to see if it was worth spending £200 on. The demo was ok but not long enough to learn how to use the program to make a track. I can honestly say if I didn't get a cracked copy of Live and use it to get "the production bug" (excuse the pun) then I wouldn't have bought it like I have recently

[hacktheplanet]

Here is a list of the reasons I bought Live:

1. Without money, Ableton can't continue to develop their product.
2. No tech support.
3. No free, easy bugfixes/updates.
4. It is likely a pirated version will shut down randomly, and this could be during a set.
5. People in this forum will shit all over you if you don't have a license.

[condra]

^ Pretty much the same reasons as me.
And I bought Operator because it's bloody amazing.

For what it's worth, I've had very little trouble with Live 7.

The idea of a more official forum for users with serials only is a concept that has been brought up and knocked down a few times before.

I've never posted a technical question about Live in here, that wasn't answered at some point.

[j2j]

I think it is important to buy your software.

[last man on earth]

Saw this on another forum, seems fitting:

"Consider where you want to be...if you're making any kind of digital content for sale (movies, music, software, etc.), expect your income to be directly affected by cracks and torrents. There may be very low cost involved in electronic distribution, but that doesn't mean there wasn't any real time put into development, time just like the time your parents put into going to work to earn money to support you - those developers are people who have children to support, just like your parents did with you, and if they developed software as a hobby in their free time and didn't share it, we'd all be hurting and this wouldn't even be a discussion because you can't crack hardware."

Buy it because it's the honest, right thing to do, and deal with the issues/upgrades/fixes like the rest of us.

As far as bugs go, why don't you email Sir Gates about why he allowed Microsoft to release Vista, with all of it's bugs and problems, to a far more massive user base than Ableton reaches, from end users to computer manufacturers, especially since XP was at it's most solid when Vista was released - they could have spent a fraction of what they've spent on advertising Vista coming up with new security for XP and kept that OS running (and selling) for another five years.

Or complain to PC manufacturers for making so many different kinds of computers that customer support for software companies can barely keep up -I'm sure that Dell, HP, Toshiba, Gateway, Acer, Sony, etc, etc, etc, will all be in a hurry to get on the same page after hearing what you have to say.

No one can handle every single problem at the drop of a hat, Gates, Jobs, Henke, and yourself included, and the frequency of complaints about a bug determine the placement on the list of shit to get fixed, so if you're the only guy running into this, be patient - there could be a bug that's affecting thousands more paying customers than are be affected by the bug you are reporting, which dictates that bug get fixed first, and since you don't work for Ableton, you don't know what your priority is on that list.

Relax - this could be something that goes away with the next version or fix, and you don't know yet, but if I were you, I'd be looking beyond the software, especially if your problem is rare. Maybe you should ask how common your problem is, and then act realistically.

[occular]

>So what IS the point of buying Ableton's product?

If you are so angry about Live, dont use it, sell it. Why do you use it and cry ? Try to make things elsewhere. But if you use, so please buy.
And be happy with that, what you get !

For me AL works fine for things I want to do. And Live ONLY !!!
For things I cant reach with Live I use another DAWs, apps, patches, etc
------------

All apps are at some point buggy..my neuron is full of bugs, but I love it.

[Angstrom]

I stole your song because the bassline didn't really work for me.

[gjm]

I have spent just on $15K on software in the last 6 years. I trialed some of the software via cracks and discovered that the sales person from 1 company trying to convince me to part with $8K was not telling me the whole picture. He was, in my opinion trying to steal my hard earned money in order to generate his commission, not to get me the best kit. Not every software company has impeccable 'all for the customer' morals. Nor does every sales person representing said companies.

I also discovered significant hardware issues that would have put my budget so far out of whack that I would have been left without funds to continue in business in those early stages. I ended up paying for a license from an opposing company for half the price and no hardware upgrade. Fully functioning and profit generating.

While using cracks I never generated a revenue, I only trialed. Much of the time, trial periods are to short for those who have weak technical skills or who are just getting into what ever field they are using software for. Decisions to commit to a system can have big consequences down the line which can hurt. The rule is ALWAYS 'Buyer Beware.'

Now I am not saying I wish I used an Ableton crack, but I am glad I didn't buy the full version straight away. Although I do not yet use Live to generate revenue, I do use other music related software to earn my income. It is ESSENTIAL that what ever I commit to works. That, along with good customer relations is what creates loyalty.

[heavensdaw]

We buy, because it is for the music... The sacred music that we create. Our art. We honor that. There is enough filthy dirty scabby rip-off mongering going on in the world. We don't need it here...
We buy, because we can and want to...
Stealing from Ableton would be akin to stealing from myself.

Get a life

Hd

[Crash]

or I can make like Timur and scream bloody murder with charts and graphs and threads and in depth analysis of Live's faulty addition scheme

No reports, no fixes. No informations, no workarounds (or saving time on searching for those that don't exist anyway).

.... 2 updates later... no more crashes ...go figure....

4 updates later Live7 is pretty stable at last...

Want to make it more stable? Set Plugin Buffers to a fixed value/size to avoid crashing when you change Audio Buffers. Also watch out when changing Midi preferences. Sorry, I don't know any other reproduceable crash scenarios anymore now that .12 fixed the worst crashes for our own projects.

You're the only one who complains about it

This sounds familiar, I've read the same from Support before. The logic behind it is rational and economically reeasonable: If the majority of people live happily with substandards why waste money and effort on improving them? Please don't ask me if this is a democratic or a capitalistic concept.

[hereschenes]

Just because you can pirate software with relative ease has nothing at all to do with whether you should. The OP seems to be implying that if he has persistent problems with the product that are unfixed, then his only option is to download a cracked version. How about... you don't use it, if you hate it so much? Ableton don't owe you anything. Sure, I mean, vent your spleen on the bug, but that's a totally separate issue to whether to get a cracked version, regardless of the ethical gymnastics you use to try and justify yourself.

I don't know why people are bothering with "we buy the product because it's for our art" or "we buy it because it's such a great product and we <3 Ableton 4eva". While those things are true and I feel the same way, they really are unnecessary elements of the discussion. Bottom line is - if you steal software, for any reason, you are making the world a worse place, and doing exactly the same thing as someone who breaks into your house and steals your laptop. Again: just because you can has nothing to do with whether you should.

Sorry, but as a software developer myself, this stuff really makes me angry. If people want to give away their software for free, or on open source-like terms, then that's their prerogative. But if they make their software available only on commercial terms, then you either abide by those terms and pay for the software, or you don't get the software. It's really not hard to grasp, is it?

[leedsquietman]

I think Chris that given your scenario, you probably should look at using some other software. TD has a point. Don't threaten it, go ahead and do it. Vote with your feet because it is obviously stressing you out so much as to be taking time of your lifespan.

I think given your insulting language and mentioning of using cracks that you wouldn't last at Cubase or Digidesign's forums for more than 5 minutes before they banned you.

And I have also NEVER used cracked software and never will, so while I accept that kids who can't afford it and so on might try that route, there are alternatives. Such as buying someone's license from them who got p***ed off waiting for a bugfix for cheap, or getting yourself enrolled in a course or something where you can educate yourself AND pick up your software for 40-50% cheaper. Or using stuff such as Reaper, which is good but cheap (50 bucks) for a non commercial license.