Mastering question

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:50 pm

I love it when you write about the creamy top end.

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:52 pm

And by the look of your sig, i would have to agree

lola · Post by **lola** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:05 pm

knotkranky wrote:
lola wrote:
knotkranky wrote:^ Hmm, i dunno bro. I'm definitely from the "Mastering Shmastering camp.

Responsible for the classics? His finishing touches makes it gold? No way dude.

Do you know how hard it would be to fuck up a Dave Pensado mix of a Teddy Riley track? Anybody could master that.

If he's your favorite, then you just like the records
Yea i like the records, but that has nothing to do with it.
I know what the power of a good master holds, but i am experienced with vinyl mastering, and there is a huge difference from the original and the final master.
The fact that you point out a dave pensado mix, why did they choose for herb ?... because he has that flavour.
Explain me : Why is it Sharon Redd, Indeep, Nairobi, all have that cream on top? ...or are day all mixed by Dave pensando?
Actually the big mixers have a large pool of mastering dudes they like. Regardless, record companies decide who gets used and it's basically decided on availability and that's it. Nobody just goes to one guy for a sound. They can't wait like that anyway. The fact is Herb was available to do the job at that moment. He may not have even been a first pick, just available.

Why do those cats have a creamy top end? The only way to get that is to mix creamy or more important yet, produce/record creamy sounds in a creamy way. A screwed up mix on the top-end doesn;t go creamy in mastering, there's got be cream there to begin with. And no, all are not mixed by Dave Pensado, but they're all mixed by dudes who know how to mix and record creamy. I only mention Dave cuz he's one of a bunch of killer mixers that don't need that kind of help in mastering. I've worked with some of the greatest mastering dudes around, it often goes fast and is boring as hell cuz it was great to begin with and mastering guys love it that way. There are lots of great mixers that are boring to master (so to speak) and i'm one of them The mix is 90% and mastering can be very helpful with another 10%. If the mix is rotten, mastering can be 49% helpful, but sonic success is in the mix. Other than melding disparaging mixes and mastering kitchen duties, sonically mixing IS mastering except with more channels. Cheers mate

I am such a mixer too, but i don't have the tools like weiss convs studer tapes custom build eq's comps and all the other facts a good master has.
I have the source, ( 32 chan analog desk with british eq's, meek comps, drawmner spl and such).. The master has the sauce)

That's why i won't master myself(like i already mentioned in the beginning of this thread)
But i am glad you own that stuff and all the knowledge on this subject yourself

My mixes are good, but the master can add some spice and magic to em, example simon at the exchange does real nice magic.
Like he does on a lott of products from artists http://www.exchangemastering.co.uk/simon.html

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:13 pm

Did I ever mention how some people think mastering is all high end stuff by decades old engineers, and other people think anyone can do it?

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:24 pm

lola wrote:
knotkranky wrote:
lola wrote: Yea i like the records, but that has nothing to do with it.
I know what the power of a good master holds, but i am experienced with vinyl mastering, and there is a huge difference from the original and the final master.
The fact that you point out a dave pensado mix, why did they choose for herb ?... because he has that flavour.
Explain me : Why is it Sharon Redd, Indeep, Nairobi, all have that cream on top? ...or are day all mixed by Dave pensando?
Actually the big mixers have a large pool of mastering dudes they like. Regardless, record companies decide who gets used and it's basically decided on availability and that's it. Nobody just goes to one guy for a sound. They can't wait like that anyway. The fact is Herb was available to do the job at that moment. He may not have even been a first pick, just available.

Why do those cats have a creamy top end? The only way to get that is to mix creamy or more important yet, produce/record creamy sounds in a creamy way. A screwed up mix on the top-end doesn;t go creamy in mastering, there's got be cream there to begin with. And no, all are not mixed by Dave Pensado, but they're all mixed by dudes who know how to mix and record creamy. I only mention Dave cuz he's one of a bunch of killer mixers that don't need that kind of help in mastering. I've worked with some of the greatest mastering dudes around, it often goes fast and is boring as hell cuz it was great to begin with and mastering guys love it that way. There are lots of great mixers that are boring to master (so to speak) and i'm one of them The mix is 90% and mastering can be very helpful with another 10%. If the mix is rotten, mastering can be 49% helpful, but sonic success is in the mix. Other than melding disparaging mixes and mastering kitchen duties, sonically mixing IS mastering except with more channels. Cheers mate

I am such a mixer too, but i don't have the tools like weiss convs studer tapes custom build eq's comps and all the other facts a good master has.
I have the source, ( 32 chan analog desk with british eq's, meek comps, drawmner spl and such).. The master has the sauce)

That's why i won't master myself(like i already mentioned in the beginning of this thread)
But i am glad you own that stuff and all the knowledge on this subject yourself
My mixes are good, but the master can add some spice and magic to em, example simon at the exchange does real nice magic.
Like he does on a lott of products from artists http://www.exchangemastering.co.uk/simon.html

I mix in the box, though I have a Neve 8078 available to me downstairs that I don't want to use and the gear you've mentioned in the room next to me. 95% of the mixes on my site are ITB and about half are pre-mastering master mixes. Hell, i don't even care if my stuff isn't mastered. I don't disagree on the magic that can be had in mastering, you bet. All I'm saying is don't expect the magic, even from the greatest mastering engineer in the world. Most of us are ITB so I say forget mastering if yer mix is flaccid, turn on the computer and hit again instead of beating your 2track to death with "mastering" when the mix session is sitting right next to it. Only aspiring mastering engineers should be into mastering, the rest of us should get our mixing chops together.

Did I ever mention how some people think mastering is all high end stuff by decades old engineers, and other people think anyone can do it?

yes, but not enough

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:50 pm

I'm like no fun at all huh?

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:55 pm

knotkranky wrote:I'm like no fun at all huh?

well, you're no Timur.

Moody · Post by **Moody** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:04 pm

Still wondering how my noise tracks should be mastered. With inspiration from this thread, I spent some time with a track last night, twiddled with this, adjusted that. It still sounded like noise to me!

Would have been nice to actually have seen some information about mastering in this thread!

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:04 pm

@ Tone ^^

sorry Moody

Moody · Post by **Moody** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:08 pm

knotkranky wrote:^^

With out all the BS of course. I tried to follow this thing but, I guess I get bored easily.

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:20 pm

Moody wrote:
knotkranky wrote:^^

With out all the BS of course. I tried to follow this thing but, I guess I get bored easily.

that was for Tone Deft.

Ya gotta know what mastering can't do anything about. Like over-compression, phase problems, ugly panning or making a noise track have less noise. Forget mastering and get to mixing. Do a "Save As" rename, take all he plugins off, throw down the faders and mix again.

Moody · Post by **Moody** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:45 pm

knotkranky wrote:
Moody wrote:
knotkranky wrote:^^

With out all the BS of course. I tried to follow this thing but, I guess I get bored easily.
that was for Tone Deft.

Ya gotta know what mastering can't do anything about. Like over-compression, phase problems, ugly panning or making a noise track have less noise. Forget mastering and get to mixing. Do a "Save As" rename, take all he plugins off, throw down the faders and mix again.

No worries, I was being sarcastic as well. I understand Mastering is an art, as Mixing is an art and as coming up with the song idea itself is an art. I am guessing this is why it takes me at least 5 years to finish one?

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:21 am

Moody wrote:
knotkranky wrote:
Moody wrote: With out all the BS of course. I tried to follow this thing but, I guess I get bored easily.
that was for Tone Deft.

Ya gotta know what mastering can't do anything about. Like over-compression, phase problems, ugly panning or making a noise track have less noise. Forget mastering and get to mixing. Do a "Save As" rename, take all he plugins off, throw down the faders and mix again.
No worries, I was being sarcastic as well. I understand Mastering is an art, as Mixing is an art and as coming up with the song idea itself is an art. I am guessing this is why it takes me at least 5 years to finish one?

Well, ya don't need to understand mastering so you can knock that off the list. Now you're down to 4.5 years per. Anyway, you learn from mistakes, not successes so get busy and make a shitload of mistakes already

evon · Post by **evon** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:44 pm

I am trying out Cubase shortly..I hope it works better for me if not I will still be moving on..Live was my first love but somehow I think I am out of place on this forum.

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:05 pm

if forum decorum is affecting your choice of DAW it's time to get off the interweb. priorities man, priorities...