why BUY Live?

[adventurepants_]

There's just so much that's wrong with this post. Shall we begin?


A crack is circumventing a part of the program that's necessary to keep it running. That's akin to removing the emission controls on your car. Will it run for a while? Yes. Will it eventually do damage to the whole? Yes.

youve really got the wrong end of the stick on this one. take for example Securom DRM on games. the basic level of security is that the game will check that the DVD is in the drive, or phone home to the companies servers, in order to allow you to play. Cracks remove entirely this check, so the game just runs without checking anything. How does this do damage?

Take an audio example, Cubase. Remember the broohahha a couple of years back when pirates cracked the iirc Syncrosoft copy protection. They found that the copy protection itself was slowing down Cubase, and that it ran much faster with it removed. Not to mention that most forms of DRM actually dictate what imaging, and burning programs you can have installed on your pc, otherwise they wont run.

So to give you another analolgy, cracks are much more like an appendix operation, removing something completely superflous, and possibly harmful.

usual disclaimer: i buy all my music software, for the same reason i buy CDs and games, i like to support people who do good work. Just wanted to correct some technical fallacies in this thread. IMHO thhe Abes have pretty much got their DRM sorted out well, in practice it causes very little problems, even though i despise having to ask for further unlocks, but that is preferable to some half baked invasive dongle based nonsense.

[Poster]

PS: Due to Live's incapability to run properly on Vista I have not nearly as much experience with it as I'd liked to.

dude.. gimme a break will ya?.. all yer own decisions..
you could've recorded a couple of albums on all the time you've spammed here with yer phony weather reports..
you're nothing but a tech nerd who only tries to find reasons to not have to do the stuff we're all doing namely MAKE MUSIC WITHOUT COMPLAINING, too much..
really.. do you get high on this tech stuff? I have never caught you in anything artistically and/or creative mud slinging.. typical..

Live is not responsible for your private shortcomings..

as I said before, and you cleverly chose to not answer,
don't blaim the instable media for anything you can't get done..
Live is just a tool, not perfect, so extend it with 3rd party stuff where it comes short..
why is it that 99% of the user feedback I read does not point fingers at Ableton all the time?
it's because people get their stuff done anyway.. but only if you really want to.. just set priorities, et voila!
in my book creativity can never be obstructed by any technical shortcomings.. never..
you have literally wasted a good year on what? complaining complaining complaining..
and now its because of Live/Vista you don't know the app as good as you've wanted to?.. you lose.. too bad..



anyway.. I think a reason for all yer (and others) ranting on Support etc. is because Ableton let's you in on a lot of stuff..
do you stress Microsoft about their mighty Vista?.. no.. Apple? Steinberg? no.. because you know yer voice is not heard, even when you could scream it into Bill Gates's ear..
Ableton shines because of their personal 1-on-1 approach but at the same time that can be a pitfall as well.. we're sometimes just too close to their kitchen..
when you realize that you have 1-on-1 discussions with Ableton employees that can even go pretty deep, then just learn to appreciate it's even possible..

[Crash]

you could've recorded a couple of albums on all the time you've spammed here with yer phony weather reports..
you're nothing but a tech nerd who only tries to find reasons to not have to do the stuff we're all doing namely MAKE MUSIC WITHOUT COMPLAINING, too much..

This forum is a funny place. Whenever a person takes time to discuss some music technology related topic indeep or maybe even complains about Ableton Live, both of which are "on topic" contents on this forum, some smart *ss comes around and tells that person he is not creative and is not making music.

really.. do you get high on this tech stuff? I have never caught you in anything artistically and/or creative mud slinging.. typical..

Obviously you don't have eyes to read my creative threads then and more obviously I chose not to throw any of our material at your feed before our album is finished.

Live is not responsible for your private shortcomings..

Which are?

as I said before, and you cleverly chose to not answer,
don't blaim the instable media for anything you can't get done..

I answered that several times already. We do get along creatively despite the pitfalls of Live (like .10 being completely unuseable for our live onstage set and making our preparation a miserable time until be finally noticed the blame is on .10).

Live is just a tool, not perfect, so extend it with 3rd party stuff where it comes short..

Like I wrote before (remember the "no eyes to read"?) we do extend Live with 3rd party stuff and we do use workaround and we get work done. But that doesn't mean I have to accept broken parts of the tools I'm working with and shortcomings of the support who is supposed to service those parts.

I admit to have one major weakness: I like having control over my tools and test them in order to understand their strength and weaknesses. Furthermore when I find major weaknesses that can make mine and other users experience miserable I like to share them in order to inform other people about what to watch out for.

why is it that 99% of the user feedback I read does not point fingers at Ableton all the time?

Why is it that 99% of the user feedback from people I helped does not point fingers at me all the time?

you have literally wasted a good year on what? complaining complaining complaining..

You are a funny boy. I did not waste my whole year on complaining. I spent most of the time learning alot of tech necessary for my work in music, working on becoming a valuable part of www.autoaggression.net, playing our first two concerts as a band (as kind of rehearsal), collecting enough money to buy the gear necessary for our work and getting the issues of the various tools we bought fixed before we need them for regular live-shows next year.

I had very successful communication with RME and partly successful communication with NI, Novation and Ableton during the course of the year. All issues I could not get fixed at least I know about and how to deal with them.

Besides, I'm originally a vocalist and guitar player, I don't need any of these toys to perform my art. But I'm also working hard on contributing to an Electronic act and making that act a good live-show experience after experiencing it to be originally rather uninspiring to watch on-stage.

do you stress Microsoft about their mighty Vista?.. no.. Apple? Steinberg? no.. because you know yer voice is not heard, even when you could scream it into Bill Gates's ear..

No, because Windows XP and Vista both run quite smooth with what I'm asking of them, because I did not own an Apple computer until today and because I do not use Steinberg software (my bandmate prefered to buy Logic, so yes, I lost that fight ). If I find something in Windows or OS X and Logic that bugs me then I will contact them and try to either get help with what I may do wrong in operation or fixes for possible bugs.

Ableton shines because of their personal 1-on-1 approach but at the same time that can be a pitfall as well.. we're sometimes just too close to their kitchen..

I'm not anywhere close to their kitchen and so ain't you. You probably have just as little idea what's happening at Ableton as I do. You probably do not get in any direct contact to developers, but only Support and you probably don't ever discuss anything as complicated with then as I do.

But maybe I'm wrong, maybe you've got the key to their lab and know hell more about how things work. Maybe you can answer me why every native DirectMusic Midi interface on my setup (I own three) start dropping audio-output at 1200 bytes/s Midi throughput with 64 samples Audio buffers and 2400 bytes/s at 128 samples eventhough there is neither relevant CPU nor Interrupt/DPC load happening? And maybe you can explain why DPC latency on two of these three interfaces increases at even low to medium throughput in Live when sending Midi data eventhough Interrupts/DPCs are not involved in the driver when sending Midi and no increase happens at even full throughput with Miditest?

You don't know what I'm talking about and you don't give a sh*t either? Good, then leave that kind of technical mambojambo to me and other people who care about that side of music production and have another read on one of the misogyny, ejaculation or my beat is larger than your beat discussion threads!

[Crash]

what's the latest crack that works at least for a few days? sorry for not being up to date, haven't checked for weeks, is it 7.0.3?

Obviously crackers don't find Ableton Live interesting enough anymore to spent time on it. That is not a good sign!

(wohoo, again too lazy to count, but what was name name of the daw company that does update more often than we do?)

Ableton's three months worth of publically announced bug-fixes: 25 (plus maybe some announced ones?)
Cakewalk two months worth of publically announced bug-fixes: 45 (plus several more unannounced ones!)

[hoffman2k]

what's the latest crack that works at least for a few days? sorry for not being up to date, haven't checked for weeks, is it 7.0.3?

Obviously crackers don't find Ableton Live interesting enough anymore to spent time on it. That is not a good sign!

(wohoo, again too lazy to count, but what was name name of the daw company that does update more often than we do?)

Ableton's three months worth of publically announced bug-fixes: 25 (plus maybe some announced ones?)
Cakewalk two months worth of publically announced bug-fixes: 45 (plus several more unannounced ones!)

Well thats settled then. Cakewalk rocks! Have they given the license you demanded off them yet?

Sorry for not reporting back earlier, but I was rather busy and since I'm not working with Sonar (nor Vista yet because I need to make sure software vendors fix their bugs first) it took some time to fire up the system for testing again.

I'm curious if you also see this behaviour in WDM mode or its only in ASIO mode?

Unfortunately my 15 days trial expired meanwhile so you have to look into this bis yourself.

Best wishes and success for your product. I'm going back to fight with Ableton support over their list of unidentified (hence unfixed) issues.

[Crash]

Well thats settled then. Cakewalk rocks! Have they given the license you demanded off them yet?

It doesn't matter who rocks or rocks not. DOM bragged about Ableton's supposed great update cycle and I came up with the next best example I know about of that .0.123456789 numbers don't tell us anything about how many bugs were actually fixed.

They gave me a "Thank you for helping us find a fundamental issue in our software, would you care to have another look on our supposed fix and report back?" I was quite busy at that time, but managed to help them a bit in my spare time. Got any problem with that? I do the same for Ableton and other companies whose products I use.

[hoffman2k]

I do the same for Ableton and other companies whose products I use.

My support goes out to all those people and their families.

[Crash]

I do the same for Ableton and other companies whose products I use.

My support goes out to all those people and their families.

Nope, my support goes out to all those people. Don't know how you are affiliated with their families though.

Oh wait, I send a bug-report to you concerning PK [squared as well, just in order to help you improve the app if you like to (we switched away from it to our own Max patch now). And I helped people via the Ableton Forum to configure and use your application without any bragging or asking or anything. I must be a really naughty evil boy.

[Poster]

Live is not responsible for your private shortcomings..

Which are?

not knowing enough about Live, as you said yourself..
which you could have if you didn't waste your time on all those lengthy speculation drivel..
but why do I care anyway? please continue..

as I said before, and you cleverly chose to not answer,
don't blaim the instable media for anything you can't get done..

I answered that several times already. We do get along creatively despite the pitfalls of Live (like .10 being completely unuseable for our live onstage set and making our preparation a miserable time until be finally noticed the blame is on .10).

you're constantly blaiming everything but yourself.. nuff said..

I admit to have one major weakness

.
naah.. way more..

why is it that 99% of the user feedback I read does not point fingers at Ableton all the time?

Why is it that 99% of the user feedback from people I helped does not point fingers at me all the time?

you either don't understand or don't want to..
what I meant is that you are one of the few that is constantly blaiming Ableton for this and that, while 99% doesn't..
why?

do you stress Microsoft about their mighty Vista?.. no.. Apple? Steinberg? no.. because you know yer voice is not heard, even when you could scream it into Bill Gates's ear..

No, because Windows XP and Vista both run quite smooth with what I'm asking of them, because I did not own an Apple computer until today and because I do not use Steinberg software (my bandmate prefered to buy Logic, so yes, I lost that fight ). If I find something in Windows or OS X and Logic that bugs me then I will contact them and try to either get help with what I may do wrong in operation or fixes for possible bugs.

those companies were just examples you context bender..
if you don't understand what I meant i cannot be bothered to explain, again....

Ableton shines because of their personal 1-on-1 approach but at the same time that can be a pitfall as well.. we're sometimes just too close to their kitchen..

I'm not anywhere close to their kitchen and so ain't you.

we all are! name one oher DAW company you can have a chat with on this level, almost on a daily basis..

You probably have just as little idea what's happening at Ableton as I do.

what I do and don't know is none of yer business..
if you just pay attention to what is going on you can learn enough..

You probably do not get in any direct contact to developers, but only Support and you probably don't ever discuss anything as complicated with then as I do.

LOL.. big head.. very big head..

But maybe I'm wrong, maybe you've got the key to their lab and know hell more about how things work. Maybe you can answer me why every native DirectMusic Midi interface on my setup (I own three) start dropping audio-output at 1200 bytes/s Midi throughput with 64 samples Audio buffers and 2400 bytes/s at 128 samples eventhough there is neither relevant CPU nor Interrupt/DPC load happening? And maybe you can explain why DPC latency on two of these three interfaces increases at even low to medium throughput in Live when sending Midi data eventhough Interrupts/DPCs are not involved in the driver when sending Midi and no increase happens at even full throughput with Miditest?

LOL, again..
this is your biggest problem.. nobody is listening to this crap..

[Poster]

(wohoo, again too lazy to count, but what was name name of the daw company that does update more often than we do?)

Ableton's three months worth of publically announced bug-fixes: 25 (plus maybe some announced ones?)
Cakewalk two months worth of publically announced bug-fixes: 45 (plus several more unannounced ones!)

apples and oranges..

[Crash]

not knowing enough about Live, as you said yourself..

I said "Windows Vista".

you're constantly blaiming everything but yourself.. nuff said..

Oh, good lord, please forgive me for being such a jerk. I constantly keep tripping over self-induced issues with the gear I'm using. I admit to my sin of warping reality around me just in order to make gear fail. I'm a gremlin and I deserve to burn on a stake! Thank you lord.

I admit to have one major weakness

.
naah.. way more..

That wasn't exclusive, but inclusive, and in context.

what I meant is that you are one of the few that is constantly blaiming Ableton for this and that, while 99% doesn't..
why?

They don't care? They don't have the means to? I'm a nitpicker? They watch porn while I write posts and visit my lady afterwards?

those companies were just examples you context bender..
if you don't understand what I meant i cannot be bothered to explain, again....

I already gave other examples: RME, Novation, Cakewalk, NI. Not big enough. Don't blame me, I cannot afford anything more expensive.

we all are! name one oher DAW company you can have a chat with on this level, almost on a daily basis..

Chatting with 1st and maybe 2nd tier support guys on an almost daily basis? No problem, just call a number, many are free even. Chatting with the guys in charge of development, even not on a daily but still astonishing regular basis? RME and Cakewalk!

The level of insight, practical knowledge and professionalism Matthias and Noel put into a discussion while staying downto-earth guys is astonishing. In contrast to those helpful but sometimes lacking Ableton support guys they don't keep telling me about how I don't know sh*t, but discuss and explain things and come up with solutions pretty quick once an issue had been tackled.

what I do and don't know is none of yer business..

Oh, interesting view. How comes that what I do and don't is of yer business then?

LOL.. big head.. very big head..

Yep, makes it an easier target.

LOL, again.. this is your biggest problem.. nobody is listening to this crap..

Nah, no problem here. While you Ableton guys ain't listening and keep crying about how your pretty pitty little Midi toys wont Sync for the love of god I work on solutions on my own and with the help of the companies who build my other gear. My Sync works, does yours?

[dcease]

They watch porn while I write posts and visit my lady afterwards?

pfft. i jerk off, while listening back to the tunes i make in live spectrum analyzer is SOOO hot!

My Sync works, does yours?

nope. paid the plumber $400 bucks, and it still doesn't!

[Poster]

what I meant is that you are one of the few that is constantly blaiming Ableton for this and that, while 99% doesn't..
why?

They don't care? They don't have the means to? I'm a nitpicker? They watch porn while I write posts and visit my lady afterwards?

mate.. beyond words.. really..
if you don't want to see it, fine..

what I do and don't know is none of yer business..

Oh, interesting view. How comes that what I do and don't is of yer business then?

because I don't bomb this forum with drivel in every thread I can find..

LOL.. big head.. very big head..

Yep, makes it an easier target.

sure.. be proud.. it will grow further..

LOL, again.. this is your biggest problem.. nobody is listening to this crap..

My Sync works, does yours?

sure.. like it always has..

[Crash]

Hehe, finally someone with a sense of humor.

[Crash]

mate.. beyond words.. really..
if you don't want to see it, fine..

Like with the other people who try to drill a hole into my head I see "it" perfectly well, but disagree to agree.

because I don't bomb this forum with drivel in every thread I can find..

I wouldn't subscribe to that, but that's none of my business anyway.

sure.. be proud.. it will grow further..

Some people grow, some don't.

sure.. like it always has..

That's great! Now finally with your help and insight we can support all the other poor souls who keep bombing drivel about their failing Sync on this otherwise beautiful forum and make them operate their Live the way it's meant to be. Salvation!