why BUY Live?

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
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dom
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Post by dom » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:39 am

Crash wrote:
dom wrote:what's the latest crack that works at least for a few days? sorry for not being up to date, haven't checked for weeks, is it 7.0.3?
Obviously crackers don't find Ableton Live interesting enough anymore to spent time on it. That is not a good sign!
Actually far from that:
Everything is more than fine as long as there are trusty customers out there knowing that Live, even with its shortcomings from time to time, is still just the best product on this planet to get their specific job done - just like you!

And having the possibility to show people that we even deal with the biggest neurotic customers, artists, producers etc. in a public place like this just adds to that.

I am just a bit afraid that in your case we're starting to scare more people away by not censoring your, uhm, pretty "unique negative style of communication".

Actually i would like to do a poll about how many people still like to have you around here and how many would like to see you leave - as this is a community - but this sounds far to personal and would absolutely not be appropriate in my position.
Maybe you can do it?

Sleep tight,
Dom

P.S.: btw, the thing you mentioned about our kitchen and Poster was just a new record!
Four "wrongs" in just two lines of everyday conversation!
You actually may want to consider appologizing to him.
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Poster
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Post by Poster » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:48 am

...

siliconarc
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Post by siliconarc » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:51 am

hoffman2k wrote:
Crash wrote:Ok, we've reached the spam-point. Every get into the shelters or evacuate iimmediately.

:lol:

Wonderful perception of spam you have Sik... been looking for a wiki page on your sort...
this?

:?:

hoffman2k
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Post by hoffman2k » Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:13 am

garyboozy wrote:
hoffman2k wrote:
Crash wrote:Ok, we've reached the spam-point. Every get into the shelters or evacuate iimmediately.

:lol:

Wonderful perception of spam you have Sik... been looking for a wiki page on your sort...
this?

:?:
Pretty much yeah :lol:

Now all we need is that youtube video of that german kid trashing his room because his game wouldn't load..

Warning - Explicit Language - Funny as all hell though..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBVmfIUR ... re=related

dcease
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Post by dcease » Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:14 am

garyboozy wrote:
hoffman2k wrote:
Crash wrote:Ok, we've reached the spam-point. Every get into the shelters or evacuate iimmediately.

:lol:

Wonderful perception of spam you have Sik... been looking for a wiki page on your sort...
this?

:?:
perfect :lol:
dom wrote:Actually i would like to do a poll about how many people still like to have you around here and how many would like to see you leave - as this is a community - but this sounds far to personal and would absolutely not be appropriate in my position.
Maybe you can do it?
damn man, that is harsh 8O lord knows how i feel about timur, and his neurotic ways, i think i covered these bases months ago. lol, but it's really better not to argue with him, and ignore the stuff you don't agree with... although if his posts really are slanderous (idk, i stopped paying them any mind, live does what i need it to do :wink: ), afa scaring away potential new costumers...

but i doubt it would work. put a sticky up, entitled "attn. n00bs!", and warn them of crash, b0unce, and possibly me... i fear you lot are stuck with us :) most of us have more than one internet connection... of course crash does, he just got his new mac! maybe now, he'll bother apple/logic, esp if you all just ignore him. but hurting his feelings doesn't work. trust that.

if need be, i'll take the heat, and post the poll... lemme know!

BinaryB
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Post by BinaryB » Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:05 am

I do not condone illegal activities

But I wanna know WHAT IS LEGAL ? If the product does not work...

Does the company that sold it have to be responsible for the money they accept ?



If a company sells you a (software) product that does not work then what are your legal rights in America (or Germany) ?

In Australia, the UK and New Zealand it looks like software should be treated like any other goods or services and be subject to the TRADE PRACTICES ACT - 1974.
Queensland University of Technology Law & Justice Journal - (2003) QUTLJJ 3 wrote:

Competition In Information And Computer Technology Markets: Intellectual Property Licensing And Section 51(3) Of The Trade Practices Act 1974
IAN EAGLES AND LOUISE LONGDIN

It is assumed for present purposes that licences and assignments involving software fall under the definition of either ‘goods’ or ‘services’ under the TPA (Trade Practices Act) even when software is not supplied via any physical medium such as a disk, CD-ROM or DVD but is installed directly on machines or supplied on line via the Internet. Given the different modes of supply and the inherent nature of the software supplied (a digital stream of zeros and ones) it is not surprising that judicial interpretation of consumer protection statutes in Australia and the United Kingdom has failed to produce a clear bright line answer as to whether or when software is ‘goods’ or ‘services’ a hybrid of them both or whether it is neither and just falls through the statutory cracks. See Toby Construction Products Pty Ltd v Computer Sales Pty Ltd [1983] 2 NSWLT 48; Beta Computers (Europe) Ltd v Adobe Systems (Europe) Ltd [1996] EWCA Civ 1296; [1996] 4 All ER 481 and St Albans City Council v International Computers Ltd [1997] FSR 251. Under s 4 TPA, while the definition of ‘goods’ is not exhaustive it seems that software would have to be equated with ‘electricity’ to be caught. If software is a ‘service’ as seems more likely, it would have to be squeezed under a ‘[right (including a right in relation to or interest in real or personal property), benefit, privilege or facility that is to be granted or conferred in trade or commerce].’ To clarify the position in New Zealand ‘software’ is deemed to be goods under the Commerce Act 1986 by the Consumer Protection (Definition of Goods and Services) Bill 2002.
TRADE PRACTICES ACT 1974 - SECT 58 wrote:
Accepting payment without intending or being able to supply as ordered
A corporation shall not, in trade or commerce, accept payment or other consideration for goods or services where, at the time of the acceptance:
(a) the corporation intends:
(i) not to supply the goods or services; or
(ii) to supply goods or services materially different from the goods or services in respect of which the payment or other consideration is accepted; or
(b) there are reasonable grounds, of which the corporation is aware or ought reasonably to be aware, for believing that the corporation will not be able to supply the goods or services within the period specified by the corporation or, if no period is specified, within a reasonable time.
TRADE PRACTICES ACT 1974 - SECT 53 wrote: False or misleading representations
A corporation shall not, in trade or commerce, in connexion with the supply or possible supply of goods or services or in connexion with the promotion by any means of the supply or use of goods or services:
(a) falsely represent that goods are of a particular standard, quality, value, grade, composition, style or model or have had a particular history or particular previous use;
(aa) falsely represent that services are of a particular standard, quality, value or grade;
(b) falsely represent that goods are new;
(bb) falsely represent that a particular person has agreed to acquire goods or services;
(c) represent that goods or services have sponsorship, approval, performance characteristics, accessories, uses or benefits they do not have;
(d) represent that the corporation has a sponsorship, approval or affiliation it does not have;
(e) make a false or misleading representation with respect to the price of goods or services;
(ea) make a false or misleading representation concerning the availability of facilities for the repair of goods or of spare parts for goods;
(eb) make a false or misleading representation concerning the place of origin of goods;
(f) make a false or misleading representation concerning the need for any goods or services; or

(g) make a false or misleading representation concerning the existence, exclusion or effect of any condition, warranty, guarantee, right or remedy.
Note: For rules relating to representations as to the country of origin of goods, see Division1AA (sections 65AA to 65AN).
Any Legal Eagles on these Forums ?

I guess I should look for some case law to find if a precedence has been set.
Live8 & Serato
Download NYE'08 DJset

Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:33 am

now, it doesn't take much of a legal eagle there.

firstly
(b) there are reasonable grounds, of which the corporation is aware or ought reasonably to be aware, for believing that the corporation will not be able to supply the goods or services within the period specified by the corporation or, if no period is specified, within a reasonable time.
That's about delivery.
did you receive a download or disk of the application within a reasonable or stated time? If (true) {fugeduboudit}
A corporation shall not,<snip>
(aa) falsely represent that services are of a particular standard, quality, value or grade;
if you tried to sue on your understanding that this (above) clause means "in my situation it does not work - therefore they falsely told me their product works, and I have proved it does not for me".
If you can be proven wrong, EG: they demonstrate a similar system to yours and it's all working well. In that case you would only be proving that some 3rd party variable caused an error.

I very much doubt that the EULA for Ableton or any software says "we guarantee this will work perfectly for every person, on all systems under all circumstances, especially those which have not yet arisen". The EULA is a legal agreement.


The most likely case is that if you are dissatisfied with how the product works on your system and it is still 12 months from purchase date, they will reimburse you and you will return the product.

that's it.
you don't like it so much?
then send it back and get your money back
Last edited by Angstrom on Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

j2j
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Post by j2j » Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:34 am

BinaryB wrote:I do not condone illegal activities

But I wanna know WHAT IS LEGAL ? If the product does not work...

Does the company that sold it have to be responsible for the money they accept ?



If a company sells you a (software) product that does not work then what are your legal rights in America (or Germany) ?

In Australia, the UK and New Zealand it looks like software should be treated like any other goods or services and be subject to the TRADE PRACTICES ACT - 1974.
Queensland University of Technology Law & Justice Journal - (2003) QUTLJJ 3 wrote:

Competition In Information And Computer Technology Markets: Intellectual Property Licensing And Section 51(3) Of The Trade Practices Act 1974
IAN EAGLES AND LOUISE LONGDIN

It is assumed for present purposes that licences and assignments involving software fall under the definition of either ‘goods’ or ‘services’ under the TPA (Trade Practices Act) even when software is not supplied via any physical medium such as a disk, CD-ROM or DVD but is installed directly on machines or supplied on line via the Internet. Given the different modes of supply and the inherent nature of the software supplied (a digital stream of zeros and ones) it is not surprising that judicial interpretation of consumer protection statutes in Australia and the United Kingdom has failed to produce a clear bright line answer as to whether or when software is ‘goods’ or ‘services’ a hybrid of them both or whether it is neither and just falls through the statutory cracks. See Toby Construction Products Pty Ltd v Computer Sales Pty Ltd [1983] 2 NSWLT 48; Beta Computers (Europe) Ltd v Adobe Systems (Europe) Ltd [1996] EWCA Civ 1296; [1996] 4 All ER 481 and St Albans City Council v International Computers Ltd [1997] FSR 251. Under s 4 TPA, while the definition of ‘goods’ is not exhaustive it seems that software would have to be equated with ‘electricity’ to be caught. If software is a ‘service’ as seems more likely, it would have to be squeezed under a ‘[right (including a right in relation to or interest in real or personal property), benefit, privilege or facility that is to be granted or conferred in trade or commerce].’ To clarify the position in New Zealand ‘software’ is deemed to be goods under the Commerce Act 1986 by the Consumer Protection (Definition of Goods and Services) Bill 2002.
TRADE PRACTICES ACT 1974 - SECT 58 wrote:
Accepting payment without intending or being able to supply as ordered
A corporation shall not, in trade or commerce, accept payment or other consideration for goods or services where, at the time of the acceptance:
(a) the corporation intends:
(i) not to supply the goods or services; or
(ii) to supply goods or services materially different from the goods or services in respect of which the payment or other consideration is accepted; or
(b) there are reasonable grounds, of which the corporation is aware or ought reasonably to be aware, for believing that the corporation will not be able to supply the goods or services within the period specified by the corporation or, if no period is specified, within a reasonable time.
TRADE PRACTICES ACT 1974 - SECT 53 wrote: False or misleading representations
A corporation shall not, in trade or commerce, in connexion with the supply or possible supply of goods or services or in connexion with the promotion by any means of the supply or use of goods or services:
(a) falsely represent that goods are of a particular standard, quality, value, grade, composition, style or model or have had a particular history or particular previous use;
(aa) falsely represent that services are of a particular standard, quality, value or grade;
(b) falsely represent that goods are new;
(bb) falsely represent that a particular person has agreed to acquire goods or services;
(c) represent that goods or services have sponsorship, approval, performance characteristics, accessories, uses or benefits they do not have;
(d) represent that the corporation has a sponsorship, approval or affiliation it does not have;
(e) make a false or misleading representation with respect to the price of goods or services;
(ea) make a false or misleading representation concerning the availability of facilities for the repair of goods or of spare parts for goods;
(eb) make a false or misleading representation concerning the place of origin of goods;
(f) make a false or misleading representation concerning the need for any goods or services; or

(g) make a false or misleading representation concerning the existence, exclusion or effect of any condition, warranty, guarantee, right or remedy.
Note: For rules relating to representations as to the country of origin of goods, see Division1AA (sections 65AA to 65AN).
Any Legal Eagles on these Forums ?

I guess I should look for some case law to find if a precedence has been set.

What are you talking about? The Ableton Program is of higher quality than Cubase, with better and unmatched Customer Support. Any rational person should be able to see that.

Ableton adheres to the some of the finest standards in audio software.

Have you ever used Windows? Do you ever get a BLUE SCREEN? Do you enjoy paying for the privilege? Don't you think windows is a buggy piece of shit? Ableton is not your wordpress website, or your text editor. Ableton is a music studio.

What do you want from it?

You know, I'd be more worried about bugs, in software that is used with nuclear weapons. Cause that software has bugs as well.

01001000010001010100110001001100010011110010000001010111010011110101001001001100
01000100
too many lasers...

BinaryB
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Post by BinaryB » Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:28 am

Angstrom wrote:now, it doesn't take much of a legal eagle there.
Um... I was refering to an American Bald-Headed "Legal" Eagle.


I just asked a question... please dont take it the wrong way.
Live8 & Serato
Download NYE'08 DJset

BinaryB
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Post by BinaryB » Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:38 am

j2j wrote:
Have you ever used Windows? Do you ever get a BLUE SCREEN? Do you enjoy paying for the privilege? Don't you think windows is a buggy piece of shit? Ableton is not your wordpress website, or your text editor. Ableton is a music studio.

What do you want from it?
You sound like you are being a condescending antagonist.

Its just a question about software... and I have provided "some" information. Just looking for a conversation with peeps who are interested in this type of shit.

What if i was thinking about the problems with Cubase, Windows etc and NOT Ableton ? and maybe even how they effect Ableton eh d!khed ?

and say Hello world in any way you like... 0000000000000 1
Last edited by BinaryB on Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Live8 & Serato
Download NYE'08 DJset

last man on earth
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Post by last man on earth » Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:50 am

I have no interest in starting a fight, and while I'm don't post much and are fairly new in this forum, I have seen plenty of complaining, although it's mostly from Crash, and the op of this thread. I made a post earlier in this thread which made some valid points, but none so valid as this point that Crash makes against himself being the way he is in this forum:
Poster wrote:do you stress Microsoft about their mighty Vista?.. no.. Apple? Steinberg? no.. because you know yer voice is not heard, even when you could scream it into Bill Gates's ear..
Crash wrote:No, because Windows XP and Vista both run quite smooth with what I'm asking of them
What I mean by this is that Ableton does for most users what Windows does for Crash, meaning that placing tech support/development level complaints and conversations in the forum does nothing to really help, and to be honest, seeing what I have seen from crash at the frequency I have seen it in here would most likely discourage me from supporting his band, much less his arguments.

Plain and simple, this isn't the place for it. If someone wants an answer that requires a scientific test, give it to them, but constantly going on about every single flaw in here doesn't help since Ableton runs quite smooth with what most users are asking of it.

I don't think I'll ever face the issues spoken of by crash, or the op. Granted, I'm on a Mac, but I doubt I'd face the problems spoken of even on a PC, as I've only ever heard two people go on about this kind of stuff, which makes it rare in comparison with the numbers of registered users who make no mention of these problems here, or agree with crash or the op, for that matter.

On top of all that, why would someone who has no understanding or training in development or advanced math (i.e., most of the forum) even care about such subjects? If Live works for them, that's all that matters, and by going on like this constantly and at great length, crash is a) making himself look like the unabomber of this community and b) ensuring that the more easy going regs here aren't going to listen to him unless they have a specific question for him.


Personally, I'd rather hear a little humor or learn some applicable techniques than read this garbage...I'm no genius, and don't think anyone, including the Ableton staff, would claim to be either. They aren't perfect - Henke is well educated and experienced, but I doubt he would claim to be perfect - and since we're all human and imperfect, expecting perfection is expecting far too much. Nothing ever built in existence is going to work for everyone in every situation all of the time, ever.

If Live is such a problem and Crash is so smart (he must have plenty of money considering how much personal time he puts into software testing on his own time :wink: ), he should sell his Live license and develop something for himself that always works for him. As for the op, he should also sell his license if it sucks so much, and move on to something perfect - he will, I trust, report back here when he finds that perfect software, sharing his enlightenment with all of us, for the greater good, of course.

back to making music

/speech

[nis]
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Post by [nis] » Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:26 am

Crash wrote:The level of insight, practical knowledge and professionalism Matthias and Noel put into a discussion while staying downto-earth guys is astonishing. In contrast to those helpful but sometimes lacking Ableton support guys they don't keep telling me about how I don't know sh*t, but discuss and explain things and come up with solutions pretty quick once an issue had been tackled.
You will never stop, will you? This is really going to bother me now.

I can't comment much on Cakewalk, but I know RME support for a long time. They really do a great job. An exceptional good company. No doubt. Matthias Carstens who is the chief tech support guy at RME since day one, is incredibly knowledgeable - at least in terms of hardware and driver-related questions. The other RME support staff is doing a good job as well, although I also had mixed experiences with them, but nonetheless, they are certainly one of the best out there. All your applause is legitimate. However, RME's job is to code and support 2 (!) drivers - one for Macs, one for Windows PCs plus the firmware for their interfaces. As they are a hardware company, they are obviously more familiar with hardware dependancies and know more about potential hardware-/driver-related problems than anyone else, so if you have a hardware problem and like to chat about it, they are just the right address for you.

So let's look at your friends, the Ableton tech support staff, whom you constantly blame for their inability to help and lack of knowledge. To give you a little insight, the Ableton tech support takes care about approx. 1000 emails a week, the forums (at least as much as possible) and provides daily phone support for Europe and the US. The questions we receive are ranging from "I can't get a tone out of my MIDI keyboard", to computer hardware / driver / OS problems, setup problems with any kinds of 3rd party hardware and software, software crashes, hardcore Live-specific problems, Mac stuff, PC stuff and whatnot. If you consider the aforementioned facts, I am confident that we do quite a good job. Blame us for whatever you want, but you are certainly wrong if you say that we are doing a bad job or having a lack of knowledge. We are not perfect, we may do mistakes sometimes or even fail to help people with very delicate problems, but that's how it goes. We can share our knowledge and experience, but we are certainly not the magic oracle which has all the answers for your questions. And: we are humans after all. But this is obviously something you do not understand, can't accept or never learned. Looking back at your 3000+ (?) forum postings, you really have taken the word "arrogance" to a whole new level. Nevertheless you seem to be very talented with computers in general, perhaps more talented than me or others in the team, but that does not give you the right to blame our company or the tech support in particular in a public forum. Not only here on the Ableton forum by the way, but also on all other music software related forums. Looks more like you are "on a mission" to prove how bad the software is and the people behind it.

As YOU are bringing this up over and over again, let's look at one of your bad experiences with our support team, which resulted in YOU blaming ME in person in this public forum:

You, dearest Timur, reported your RME problem to us, begging for help as you failed to find a solution/answer yourself. I haven't been able to reproduce your problem at first. The Fireface ran just fine on my testing machine (at least on normal loads) and as I couldn't think of any known issue or strange behaviour in the current Live version which could have caused the described problem, my first assumption was that the driver of your RME interface does not work properly. You completely ignored this theory from the first moment on. Nevertheless I was kindly asking for various things to isolate your problem a bit, just so that we could look into the right spot or successfully reproduce your problem. You haven't been very cooperative to say the least. I contacted RME to find out more about their drivers. They literally left me alone in the dark - all I got was "our drivers work fine. must be a bug in your software" (it wasn't MC, though). We then did some more tests on other Vista machines and eventually found various problems indeed, but still didn't had any clue or an exact explanation of what's going wrong, so we forwarded everything to our development for further testing. As you can imagine, our developers are busy with writing software code all day long, so it is not easy for them to find a few hours of time to test a user's specific hardware problem. However, thankfully they took the time and looked into your problem. In the meantime you were spamming the forums all over with your crap, claiming that everything works perfect in Reaper, whereas I found various problems with Reaper and other hosts on the computer where we have been reproducing the problems. You totally denied this, which kinda turned this into a completely counterproductive support case. Our developers looked into your problem, and eventually found out that - guess what? - something was wrong with the priorities OF THE RME DRIVER. So my inital assumption really must have been wrong an incompetent. The story continues: our developers even coded a test version just for you Mr. Timur which would have solved the problem with the RME driver, but could have introduced different problems with other audio hardware, so we were holding it back to give it some thorough testing. However, I emailed you our findings about the driver priorities which was on a Friday afternoon if my memory serves me well. When I came back on Monday, I found a response from you, where you claimed that YOU already found the cause of these problems, that YOU had been "faster than us", because you couldn't wait any longer for our slow and incompetent support. That same weekend you posted your bullshit into the forums, explaining to all others that YOU are such a smart guy and that the Ableton support was too slow and too incompetent. You also provided another lengthy and detailed report showing screenshots of the thread priorities and all that. The funny thing, dear Timur, is, that your screenshots show a date on your testing tool which clearly states that you were doing these tests a day AFTER you received that email from us. A funny read on a Monday morning! Even worse than that, you even continued to discredit the support team and me in person in the further outcome of this thread. Not very kind of you, indeed, esp. if you consider the amount of time we wasted on your problem. A "thanks for looking into it" or at least some more cooperation would have been nice, but that's obviously too much to ask for.

After all this, I seriously question your credibility and highly doubt that you are really here to "help" any users, yourself or Ableton for that matter as you pretend to. Even though some people may benefit from your computer skills and even though you found some real bugs in Live indeed, your claims are questionable.

Regardless of what you really want here (I couldn't care less if you weren't spamming this forum all over), I kindly ask you (once again) to stop your insulting posts towards Ableton employees in this and other public forums and to stop alienating Live users who just come here to have a talk about music software or seek for help. If you have a bug report or a problem, send it to us (if there is still anyone left who is willing to answer / help you) or post it here on the forums, but stop your stupid comments. You seem to receive mean applause for them anyway, so why not change your strategy?



To add a final word on the actual topic of this thread, the OP obviously forgot that he needs to pay for the software for one simple reason: to be allowed to use it. This is not a question of your own moral or if others are using cracks or not, it is simply illegal to use pirated software, period. There is no discussion.

As far as bugs are concerned, I feel the frustration of the OP and I certainly agree that waiting a year for a bugfix is not very nice indeed. However, take my word that we are doing our best to make the software as good as we can. His complaint is valid and shows that there is much room for improvements here at Ableton. It does not justify his abusive language in his recent postings, though, or a discreditation of Ableton employees or a forum thread like this one.

Best regards,
Nico
Last edited by [nis] on Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Nico Starke
Ableton Product Team

j2j
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Post by j2j » Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:26 am

BinaryB wrote:
j2j wrote:
Have you ever used Windows? Do you ever get a BLUE SCREEN? Do you enjoy paying for the privilege? Don't you think windows is a buggy piece of shit? Ableton is not your wordpress website, or your text editor. Ableton is a music studio.

What do you want from it?
You sound like you are being a condescending antagonist.

Its just a question about software... and I have provided "some" information. Just looking for a conversation with peeps who are interested in this type of shit.

What if i was thinking about the problems with Cuebase - Windows and NOT Ableton ? and how it affects ableton eh ? dickhead !

So Fuck Off.


and say Hello world in any way you like... 0000000000000 1

I wasn't being condescending. You posted in a thread about Ableton, in an Ableton Forum. If you want to claim your post is about windows, cubase, pizza and or star trek, thats fine with me.

If you'd like to throw logic out the window, to satisfy your lust, that is also fine with me. Your not the first and you certainly wont be the last.

^--

Now I'm being condescending.


:D :D
too many lasers...

gjm
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Post by gjm » Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:32 am

Can I buy somebody a beer? :)
iMac - 10.10.3 - Live 9 Suite - APC40 - Axiom 61 - TX81z - Firestudio Mobile - Focal Alpha 80's - Godin Session - Home made foot controller

rikhyray
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Post by rikhyray » Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:39 am

Buy Live to support development of musician friendly software/ companies. Buying upgrades we do them and ourselves a favour, increasing chances of making our creative process more efficient and more fun.
Ableton has one of the best, if not the best support in the industry. I rarely use it, mostly related to bad decision buying hardware, was never disappointed with their assistance.

I am professionaly active at Frankfurt Musik Messe since 15 years having lots of long time business associates and friends. Ableton crew are some of the coolest people in this biz.

Regarding some tech issues refered in recent neurotically bitching threads, I personally have not problems using any version of Live on any mainstream OS -OX, XP even Vista ( that includes officially unsupported ver.5, which is my all time fav). The last 2 upgradse were not interesting for me but for lots of other artists work great I am looking forward, ver8 might bring features that would be exciting also for me but even if not I still believe Ableton is worth my financial contribution.

Locked