why BUY Live?

[mustgroove]

So wait... Crash is Timur?

Wow, I really haven't been paying attention on here lately...

[leedsquietman]

j2j - Ableton is not necessarily a 'better' product than Cubase, it is just different. I use both for different purposes.

However, in terms of accessability and customer service, they are undoubtedly light years ahead. Steinberg are still a company that insist you deal with distributors regarding tech support issues (although sometimes they will allude to some information on their forum, whenever they can't handle it, they point you to their distributor, who usually knows barely as much as the customer).

Steinberg still dongle their software and the e-licenser approach is still a dongle, if not a physical one. They also delete threads, lock them, and ban users on a regular basis. Anyone thinking the 'have a poll about crash' thing was a cruel thing should visit SB, who routinely INSULT their clients as a last word, and then ban them from the forum so they can't reply to that.

[forge]

@Nico - kudos to you for taking the time to write such a long post

I think Timurs ranting is insulated by the sheer volume of text in his posts - there is simply too much to read and very little of it is interesting, so I stopped reading his posts quite a while ago, when he was still Timur, and in fact I don't think I've ever read more than a couple of lines

my guess is it's the same for most people

I think the term TL;DR was invented for Timur

that, and I have a feeling he may be slightly autistic or something

[Crash]

So let's look at your friends, the Ableton tech support staff, whom you constantly blame for their inability to help and lack of knowledge. To give you a little insight, the Ableton tech support takes care about approx. 1000 emails a week, the forums (at least as much as possible) and provides daily phone support for Europe and the US. The questions we receive are ranging from "I can't get a tone out of my MIDI keyboard", to computer hardware / driver / OS problems, setup problems with any kinds of 3rd party hardware and software, software crashes, hardcore Live-specific problems, Mac stuff, PC stuff and whatnot. If you consider the aforementioned facts, I am confident that we do quite a good job.

I wrote this before and I write it again. Ableton Support are friendly and caring people trying to help much as they can. But my personal experience is that while you surely can help with lots of all the stuff you wrote about but you do repeatedly fail with the "hardcore" problems. My conclusion is and remains that you lack both resources/staff and qualification when it comes to very complex problems.

Blame us for whatever you want, but you are certainly wrong if you say that we are doing a bad job or having a lack of knowledge. We are not perfect, we may do mistakes sometimes or even fail to help people with very delicate problems, but that's how it goes. We can share our knowledge and experience, but we are certainly not the magic oracle which has all the answers for your questions. And: we are humans after all. But this is obviously something you do not understand, can't accept or never learned.

You mean as a customer I need to accept that your product and service repeatedly fail to deliver their promises? Sorry, I do not agree.

Looking back at your 3000+ (?) forum postings, you really have taken the word "arrogance" to a whole new level. Nevertheless you seem to be very talented with computers in general, perhaps more talented than me or others in the team, but that does not give you the right to blame our company or the tech support in particular in a public forum.

As a customer I have every right to blame your compary and support for failed delivery of service. I do have the right to criticize your company and your product based on my experience and perception and to both give you negative feedback and sharing my experiencees with other privately and publically. If you think otherwise then you maybe want to sue me.

Not only here on the Ableton forum by the way, but also on all other music software related forums.

What did I do on other music software related forum? Talk about music software related topic? Please be precise in what you blame me for.

Looks more like you are "on a mission" to prove how bad the software is and the people behind it.

If anyone can prove that then only yourself. I can assure you that I am on no such mission. To the contrary I have written several posts in favour of Live's features.

For example I am one of the few (if not the only) strong supporters of Live as a good and stable Midi Sync MASTER who keeps repeating that Live is likely not the culprit to the many reported Master Sync problems. Curiously no member of Ableton Support cares to join those positive threads while you keep jumping on anything negatively I am reporting about.

You, dearest Timur, reported your RME problem to us, begging for help as you failed to find a solution/answer yourself.
...
After all this, I seriously question your credibility and highly doubt that you are really here to "help" any users, yourself or Ableton for that matter as you pretend to.

Either your perception is heavily distorted or you deliberately try to discredit me by stating wrong facts. I have our Email communication at hand and it's a literal slap into the face of a customer who has already been served badly that you blame me now for your lack of capabilities and support concerning the RME/Vista case.

Even though some people may benefit from your computer skills and even though you found some real bugs in Live indeed, your claims are questionable.

Then I ask you to question them. I provided you with plenty of data which you chose not to refer to in our communication and I specifically asked you to provide me with help to get proper results out of Live if you keep insisting that there are no bugs involved and thus the problems must be based on user errors.

Regardless of what you really want here (I couldn't care less if you weren't spamming this forum all over), I kindly ask you (once again) to stop your insulting posts towards Ableton employees in this and other public forums and to stop alienating Live users who just come here to have a talk about music software or seek for help.

I am not insulting you! I am criticizing the quality of your product and support. It's unbelieveable how much BS a customer has to endure from this company once he dares to publish negative experience and feedback about the product and service.

If you have a bug report or a problem, send it to us (if there is still anyone left who is willing to answer / help you) or post it here on the forums, but stop your stupid comments.

I tried that for several weeks with obliterating bad results. I still regret that I entrusted you with the RME/Vista related problems and waiting for a full seven weeks until you were even able to identify them - still even halfly wrong (multiprocessor nonsense)! It took me one concentrated afternoon to identify the issues and by working closely with RME's support we had a solution running in just a few days.

I will never ever again entrust Ableton Support to identify a complex issue for me if that issue is of importance to my work. As a trusting customer you are literally lost in time doing that and I cannot afford to lose so much time waiting for no solutions.

You seem to receive mean applause for them anyway, so why not change your strategy?

I receive enough applause from those members that form their own small community on this forum. Most of the loudmouths you talk about are not part of that community, and luckily so. If you want to find that community on this forum then watch for those threads where people discuss on topic and with respect for each other instead of fighting for being the meanest Gorilla in town.

To add a final word on the actual topic of this thread, the OP obviously forgot that he needs to pay for the software for one simple reason: to be allowed to use it. This is not a question of your own moral or if others are using cracks or not, it is simply illegal to use pirated software, period. There is no discussion.

It's interesting how you keep stressing the one responsibility of a paying customer, to pay for being allowed to use a product legally. Please don't forget all the responsibilities you subscribe to by entering that contract. Maybe you don't like it, but your customers have alot of legally approved demands and rights towards you once you accept their money.

As far as bugs are concerned, I feel the frustration of the OP and I certainly agree that waiting a year for a bugfix is not very nice indeed.

No, it's not very nice... Give me a break, one year, not very nice... You are seriously lost!

Fortunately the repeatedly quoted "99%" of your customers have low demands and expectations concerning your service. That will keep your company running, at least until someone comes up with a serious competition for Session View.

However, take my word that we are doing our best to make the software as good as we can. His complaint is valid and shows that there is much room for improvements here at Ableton. It does not justify his abusive language in his recent postings, though, or a discreditation of Ableton employees or a forum thread like this one.

If you as a Support employee cannot handle negative feedback and lack the capability to appease a rightfully frustrated customer in an effective fashion then you maybe you are working in the wrong job?! Ableton Support has a loooooong way to go on learning how to make those customers happy who have serious problems with their product.

[BinaryB]

I wasn't being condescending.

Sorry I misunderstood the value of your contribution to this topic about the new windows pizza deal at your local.

You posted in a thread about Ableton, in an Ableton Forum. If you want to claim your post is about windows, cubase, pizza and or star trek, thats fine with me.

Sorry the big words made you think I was talking about windows and pizza!

If you cannot find another topic that is not about Ableton on here you have problems that are way bigger than i could have imagined....
With what you are using instead of logic its amazing you got this far...
You will need a lot of luck with that philosophical experiment

If you'd like to throw logic out the window, to satisfy your lust, that is also fine with me. Your not the first and you certainly wont be the last.

So you know youre trolling and are consider it a career.

[forge]

TL;DR

[Angstrom]

Not only here on the Ableton forum by the way, but also on all other music software related forums.

What did I do on other music software related forum? Talk about music software related topic? Please be precise in what you blame me for.

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=1427 ... =&#1429403

Sonar not good enough for you either didums ?
Having fun ?

something was wrong with the priorities OF THE RME DRIVER. So my inital assumption really must have been wrong an incompetent. The story continues: our developers even coded a test version just for you Mr. Timur which would have solved the problem with the RME driver, but could have introduced different problems with other audio hardware, so we were holding it back to give it some thorough testing. However, I emailed you our findings about the driver priorities which was on a Friday afternoon if my memory serves me well. When I came back on Monday, I found a response from you, where you claimed that YOU already found the cause of these problems, that YOU had been "faster than us", because you couldn't wait any longer for our slow and incompetent support. That same weekend you posted your bullshit into the forums, explaining to all others that YOU are such a smart guy and that the Ableton support was too slow and too incompetent.

Timur, your cover is blown dickwad.

nobody thinks you are a brilliant genius helping the universe, you are an annoying noisy fly bumping repeatedly against a window, which is open . bang bang bang bang. Why doesn;t the stupid fly just go out the window, we try and point him at the open part, but no he loves to make a noise.


can't wait for you to get you thumb out of your arse and actually make a musical noise.
Hey, or make some software, as you are such a total genius (aparently better than Ableton AND Sonar combined) . Wow, you really do know it all - why not show everyone how it's done.
We are waiting.

TimurDAW Vapourware winner 2008 - 2080

go on, demonstrate exactly what you mean.

[j2j]

meh, he is just so ridiculous, he is not even worth it...

cheers

[Crash]

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=1427 ... =&#1429403

I am still confused. What exactly did I do wrong in the linked thread?

[Angstrom]

work it out genius.

the clues are in this thread

[ollyb303]

So wait... Crash is Timur?

Wow, I really haven't been paying attention on here lately...

Best bit of this thread so far!

[[nis]]

"..."

you just don't get it. keep on talking to my hand. good luck.

[last man on earth]

THE ONLY SOLUTION: IF YOU DON'T LIKE ABLETON LIVE, OR THE CUSTOMER SUPPORT, SELL YOUR LICENSE AND BE DONE WITH IT - IT'S PAINFULLY APPARENT THAT EVERYONE HERE WILL BE TOTALLY OK WITH THAT, AND NO ONE IS INTERESTED IN THIS TOPIC ANYMORE, OTHER THAN TO ARGUE FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUING. IF YOU CAN GET YOUR MONEY BACK OUT OF YOUR PRODUCT, JUST WALK AWAY ALREADY AND LEAVE THE REST OF US TO HAVE FUN, SINCE NONE OF THE REST OF US CARE ABOUT THIS BATTLE.


SERIOUSLY, IF THERE IS A THREAD THAT SHOULD BE LOCKED AND/OR DELETED, IT SHOULD BE THIS ONE.

[ollyb303]

pwned!

[j2j]

+1

for thread lock or delete... its run its course, lets move on....