I have problems when it comes to arranging in live..hmm

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:06 pm

From top to bottom they are:

BD
Snare
Hammer
Ankle Bracelet
Perc Tom
Conga
Cymbals
Ride
Crash
Bassline
EP
Empire
Lead
Sync
Guitar
Offstab
Pad
Bubbles

A lot of those as you can see are just sort of random names I come up with as I write, they don't refer to real instruments. And really, it doesn't matter what they are, it's concept that matters more than the actual instruments I used. That's not even a real arrangement of a song of mine, I just mocked it up real quick to show the process.

salem · Post by **salem** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:30 am

hey ya'll!

Good discussion here. I just had a quick question relating to what has been previously mentioned. What is the most efficient way of moving clips from session to arrangement view? Ideally I wish that I could just sort of drag the session view off to the side and view it along side the arrangement view and then just move clips back and forth. Is this possible? - or is the "click on the clip, hit TAB, and drop it" the best there is?

rbro · Post by **rbro** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:47 am

salem wrote: Is this possible? - or is the "click on the clip, hit TAB, and drop it" the best there is?

It doesn't get much easier than that. Tarekith's guide is excellent and helped me get past a serious mental block when it came to arranging. I do use the subtractive approach now quite a bit. In fact I'll get that basic loop or melody or hook or whatever, then I'll add tracks over the course of several days (knowing I won't use them all) Now I have some place to go, because I can take tracks away and make scenes that build up to the "kitchen sink"/high energy stuff. I force myself to walk away and do this over at least several days, so I get fresh ideas and approaches. It's amazing the kind of stuff that comes to you if you let a tune simmer in your head for a few days. Then eventually I'll get to a point where I'm ready to record kind of a blueprint into arrangement view. this just gives me the general outline of the shape and length of the track. Sometimes I'll save multiple takes or versions so I can always go back if I need to. Once I have that general contour and length of the track, then it's a matter of going into arrange, playing the track from the beginning and literally stopping it wherever it doesn't sound right or I'm wanting to hear something different. Then I address that. Tweak it. Go back and listen again. Rinse and repeat until I'm satisfied.

Johnisfaster · Post by **Johnisfaster** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:50 am

8O wrote:I sympathise. What I found works for me is to work from a collection of clips in session view to organising it, still in session view, but into sequential scenes. I spend most time organising the scenes exactly as I want. When I'm really happy with the song in terms of scenes, I'll just record one take of playing the scenes to create my arrangement. And finally, just go in and tweak automation in arrangement...

Works for me, but then my current output is one track... per year!

that works perfect for me.

Johnisfaster · Post by **Johnisfaster** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:27 am

terekith: I really dig your tutorial there. it's a method I've sorta been using for a long time but you helped conjure up an image of something I hadn't fully cognified yet. if that makes sense..

ollyb303 · Post by **ollyb303** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:49 am

I haven;t checked Tarekith's guide, but I use mostly the "subtractive" approach, with a bit of "additive" thrown in.

Basically I build up what will be the most hectic peak point of my tune (everything in) in session view, chuck the clips over into arrangement, and arrange from there to get the basic structure of the tune, then add extra bits in in arrangement view.

Works a charm for me, though my tracks do end up being pretty formulaic, though I think for the kind of music I make (hard, warehouse style techno) that's no bad thing.

Warminstrel · Post by **Warminstrel** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:56 am

One thing that gets in my tits is when you go to drag from session, hit tab & drop into arrangement and the arrangement section is focused on the large, blank grey bottom area meaning you have to stop what you were doing, hit tab, hit the chevron to open arrangement then try again. More annoying is that you know damn well didnt max the bottom window the last time you were in arrangement view meaning that Live decided to do it for you.

If that makes any sense!!

Maybe its another XP 'faux pas' (Work with XP all day long and there are so many occasion when XP decides to do shit for you like open windows that your not working, normaly during mid-type meiang that you have to re-type shit all day long), thx bill.

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:44 pm

ollyb303 wrote:I haven;t checked Tarekith's guide, but I use mostly the "subtractive" approach, with a bit of "additive" thrown in.

Basically I build up what will be the most hectic peak point of my tune (everything in) in session view, chuck the clips over into arrangement, and arrange from there to get the basic structure of the tune, then add extra bits in in arrangement view.

Same here, the subtractive bit is mainly for fleshing out the basic arrangement, then I'll go back and add more linear parts if needed, or additional parts for fills and stuff.

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:45 pm

ollyb303 wrote:I haven;t checked Tarekith's guide, but I use mostly the "subtractive" approach, with a bit of "additive" thrown in.

Basically I build up what will be the most hectic peak point of my tune (everything in) in session view, chuck the clips over into arrangement, and arrange from there to get the basic structure of the tune, then add extra bits in in arrangement view.

Same here, the subtractive bit is mainly for fleshing out the basic arrangement, then I'll go back and add more linear parts if needed, or additional parts for fills and stuff.

sgx · Post by **sgx** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:38 pm

Dude,

Is a great visualization of the basic structure I usually use.

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:41 pm

Probably represents 95% of electronic and especially dance music.

twisted-space · Post by **twisted-space** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:13 pm

Warminstrel wrote:
I would also add that I have so little time being middle aged that 8 bar loops are easier to make than full tunes though I do hope to have them all finished when i retire though who will be listening to free-party hard-techno in 2040 is any bodys guess!!

Hope I will

coupdetat · Post by **coupdetat** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:16 pm

You cant edit in arrangement view like in a normal Daw you are forced to work in loops which dosent help the only tool you have is pen which dosent do anything in arrangement view

Live is not a sequencer its a loop creation dj bla bla bla

Live 8 needs to update so it can be used as a daw also

rbro · Post by **rbro** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:20 pm

coupdetat wrote:You cant edit in arrangement view like in a normal Daw you are forced to work in loops which dosent help the only tool you have is pen which dosent do anything in arrangement view

Live is not a sequencer its a loop creation dj bla bla bla

Live 8 needs to update so it can be used as a daw also

All of that is pretty much not true. I don't really use other DAWs, but I'm certainly not forced to work in loops in Live.

Badger123 · Post by **Badger123** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:07 pm

Coming from Pro Tools and Logic Ableton is quite unconventional by not having the following features as far as I can tell:
1. No group tracks (so you have to keep selecting each track at a time by multi-clicking each time you want to move clips or cut them on many tracks). Automation is worse in this respect.
2. No cross fade feature from clip to clip
3. No way of putting a clip at a precise point in the arrangement like right after the previous one or at the song play position.

I really appreciate the benefit of being able to work outside a timeline but the absence of the features above are limiting when editing recorded audio in an arrangement.