I've Been Sucked into the Void (a.k.a. New Mac User Thread)

[shai]

as much as i think about what makes mac better than windows - nobody beats apple in designing nice looking buttons. the such you want to push. thats it - GUI. and it's apparently quite a great deal.

yo, next to the ease of use and performance, osx is a great GUI in my opinion, too.

i have a PC at work (i must use) and it's like staring at utterly ugly woman the whole day, so you loose all appetite for sex

yeah thats what i mean.. its all about designing this medium between the end user and the machine's brain. placing the right buttons in the right place in the right amount in the right design - makes it all more fun to compute

[gjm]

I was bored yesterday and nearly dropped over a grand on a PC lappy (for a change) and then I remembered why I shouldn't i.e. the hardware spec on the outside may look good for the money but the quality wont be, plus i will need anti virus etc which slows the fooker down and i wll need to spend time maintaining the fooker too. Fook that!

I have an option to pick up an ex lease macbook in June, looked after very well by the school I teach at, for a very good price. Hardly used as well, just for writing reports and internet.

I am curious about how you measure how much slower a pc runs with antivirus on. I have 2 pc's that show no measurable change in operating speed between when AV is on or off.

Also, the sum total of my maintenance for my pc's is about 30 seconds per week. I am wondering if I am missing something out.

From a maintenance point of view, what is it that you have to do on a PC with XP that you don't have to do with a mac?

[infiniteB]

All I got to say is get a mac... Any other words or questions only make sense to discuss or ask if you don't have a MAC... I comes from PCs (Pieces of Crap, unintuitive, cluttered, slow, unneccesary evils upon any workflow, creativity, and skill level)

[gjm]

Any other words or questions only make sense to discuss or ask if you don't have a MAC...

Exactly, I don't have a mac so I am asking a couple of questions.

1. How much less time does it take to maintain a mac than an XP pc?

2. How can you measure how much slower a pc runs with an AV prog on?

From a maintenance point of view, what is it that you have to do on a PC with XP that you don't have to do with a mac?

[xherv]

Any other words or questions only make sense to discuss or ask if you don't have a MAC...

Exactly, I don't have a mac so I am asking a couple of questions.

1. How much less time does it take to maintain a mac than an XP pc?

2. How can you measure how much slower a pc runs with an AV prog on?

From a maintenance point of view, what is it that you have to do on a PC with XP that you don't have to do with a mac?

1) Maintenance for a Mac is basically two things:

a) Software Update, which is an automated, integrated, scheduled application that checks for updates to all Apple software. No scouring the web for service packs or security updates, no digging around in folders, no running three thousand installers to keep the system updated.

b) Superuser password required for installing some things or doing some tasks, very infrequently for the latter case. OS X is 'rooted' in Unix-style user accounts and permission setting, relatively open technology that's been around for a long time with proven stability and security . . .

I've never had a single piece of spyware, malware, adware, or a single virus on a Mac that doesn't have virus protection. I just don't run strange executables.

2) There's a thread on this forum that compares Live performance on several machines, given all the variables and processes going on it's tough to draw really precise conclusions across systems other than an app running a specific process. I'd check that thread, I'd imagine someone has run Live on an Intel Mac under both OS X and WinXP or Vista or whatever.

[infiniteB]

my fault didn't mean to come off as whatever... was just comin' from the "I have a MAC, see ya'!" perspective...

To answer your question, no defragging, no disc cleanup, rarely crashes (if ever), No need for anti virus... I "repair permission" now and then which essentially takes care of behind the scenes stuff, and nightly at 3am the computer itself does its "crop" or whatever its called maintenance... but in terms of actually maintaining, figuring out problems of slow computing, etc........ almost never...

Extra RAM always helps too..... 1Gig on a new Macbook runs very good....... 4 gig (2*2 gig for < $50 online) is blazing, even on heavily processed stuff...... keep in mind you can usually put anywhere from 1.5 to 2 times as much RAM in a Macbook than Apple says you can--- and this can be done safely...

Honestly, coming from PCs before, I consider them toys now... their interfaces, slow processing, slow updating... i dunno... it's kind of hard to explain... in short, a PC CAN NEVER do what a MAC does.... everything is more logically placed (ergonomics, file folders, etc...) and customizable... faster boot... BSD based... honestly, I think PCs suck... call me a MAC snob, I'll take that compliment anyday

[gjm]

I comes from PCs (Pieces of Crap, unintuitive, cluttered, slow, unneccesary evils upon any workflow, creativity, and skill level)

Unintuitive. This is subjective. It has nothing to do with pc's. Its about programs isn't it? Its about how your wired, how your brain works. I personnally find Live unintuitive. That would be the same regardless of platform or OS.

Cluttered. Is this not house cleaning? Do you not have clutter with a mac? No house cleaning?

Slow. Isn't that just a combination of ram speed and size, cpu size and hz and other components. My Quad PC is wicked fast with all applications.

Workflow. Is that again not program or app specific?

Creativity. What should I expect to benefit from creativity wise, from buying this macbook, if it is running the same programs I am running on my pc?

Skill level. Does it take less skill to use Live on a mac?


I am trying to separate out the subjective from the objective as it applies to me. I know people have all sorts of different reasons for making personal choices, but apart from the antivirus thing, what other task or procedure do you not have to do because you own a mac?

For instance, do you not have to run a defrag ever?

[Machinesworking]

mac book pro on the way

not mine though but it will replace my pc for our stage set up.
i'm the "band tech" so i'll have to do all the work... thats why i (easily) talked my singer into a mbp.

No offence but mbp are over kill for audio applications unless you REALLY need the extra 2 inch screen estate. Saying that, the new MB models don't have FW but that could be 'fixed' next week

Depends on what you're doing. Also a Macbook Pro with an express card slot will future proof your machine. Personally I lost interest in the mhz war a while ago, only a few of my VI's kill the CPU and that's only if I use all my CPU hungry synths in one song.
So I don't plan on spending money on a new laptop for at least 2 years, if not three. In that time though, USB 3 will come out, and a Macbook will not support that speed, while an express card with USB 3 on it will. Also, they more than likely won't return to FW on the macbooks, they'll just release the USB3 versions and call it good. Apple probably is considering FW legacy at this point.

[gjm]

To answer your question, no defragging, no disc cleanup, rarely crashes (if ever), No need for anti virus... I "repair permission" now and then which essentially takes care of behind the scenes stuff, and nightly at 3am the computer itself does its "crop" or whatever its called maintenance... but in terms of actually maintaining, figuring out problems of slow computing, etc........ almost never...

Honestly, coming from PCs before, I consider them toys now... their interfaces, slow processing, slow updating... i dunno... it's kind of hard to explain... in short, a PC CAN NEVER do what a MAC does.... everything is more logically placed (ergonomics, file folders, etc...) and customizable... faster boot... BSD based... honestly, I think PCs suck... call me a MAC snob, I'll take that compliment anyday

Cool. So eliminated from pc maintenance is
1. defrag
2. disc clean up
3. Antivirus program

...and you get some time back from not having to launch some apps to do the actual maintenance.
So far that's less than a minute each week for me.
Granted, I am running a very simple setup.

So apart from these, I should expect a more pleasant visual experience.

[Homebelly]

I comes from PCs (Pieces of Crap, unintuitive, cluttered, slow, unneccesary evils upon any workflow, creativity, and skill level)

Unintuitive. This is subjective. It has nothing to do with pc's. Its about programs isn't it? Its about how your wired, how your brain works. I personnally find Live unintuitive. That would be the same regardless of platform or OS.

Cluttered. Is this not house cleaning? Do you not have clutter with a mac? No house cleaning?

Slow. Isn't that just a combination of ram speed and size, cpu size and hz and other components. My Quad PC is wicked fast with all applications.

Workflow. Is that again not program or app specific?

Creativity. What should I expect to benefit from creativity wise, from buying this macbook, if it is running the same programs I am running on my pc?

Skill level. Does it take less skill to use Live on a mac?


I am trying to separate out the subjective from the objective as it applies to me. I know people have all sorts of different reasons for making personal choices, but apart from the antivirus thing, what other task or procedure do you not have to do because you own a mac?

For instance, do you not have to run a defrag ever?

If your already comfortable running a windows based machine, and all of the quirks, needs and necessities of that experience are a part and parcel of how you interact with your computing needs, then stick with it.
At this point you will have nothing to gain.
However, had you been reliant on your PC to provide your financial income the money you saved buying your custom built quad-core would have been lost in the down time it took you to get it up and running. That was a night mare you would not have had to deal with on a mac running OS X.

You only need to defrag a PC because of how the windows based OS's rearrange the data they are needing for the CPU, OS X works a little differently in this regard.
As long as you leave the mac turned on, what maintenance of this type that is needed by OS X can be scheduled to take place when you are not using it, by default this is usually at 3 am. The OS also rebuilds its most immediate references every time you turn the computer on or off, about the only time you need to crack the hood open on an OS X based mac is to run the repair permissions task, i do this after a major OS upgrade. Or, if your a geek and you think you might have figured out a way to gain one or two more cycles from the CPU, in this scenario your probably better off getting a PC as, IMHO, you have missed the point of having a mac in the first place.

In my mind the MAC and OS X is not important.
What is important is the work i am able to do with it.
In this regard the computer and the OS are invisible.
To put it another way, I am not using a computer, I am making music.

[gjm]

I've never had a single piece of spyware, malware, adware, or a single virus on a Mac that doesn't have virus protection. I just don't run strange executables.

Thanks for the info.

What do you mean by this comment? Sorry, I'm really uninformed about macs.

[gjm]

If your already comfortable running a windows based machine, and all of the quirks, needs and necessities of that experience are a part and parcel of how you interact with your computing needs, then stick with it.
At this point you will have nothing to gain.
However, had you been reliant on your PC to provide your financial income the money you saved buying your custom built quad-core would have been lost in the down time it took you to get it up and running. That was a night mare you would not have had to deal with on a mac running OS X.

You only need to defrag a PC because of how the windows based OS's rearrange the data they are needing for the CPU, OS X works a little differently in this regard.
As long as you leave the mac turned on, what maintenance of this type that is needed by OS X can be scheduled to take place when you are not using it, by default this is usually at 3 am. The OS also rebuilds its most immediate references every time you turn the computer on or off, about the only time you need to crack the hood open on an OS X based mac is to run the repair permissions task, i do this after a major OS upgrade. Or, if your a geek and you think you might have figured out a way to gain one or two more cycles from the CPU, in this scenario your probably better off getting a PC as, IMHO, you have missed the point of having a mac in the first place.

In my mind the MAC and OS X is not important.
What is important is the work i am able to do with it.
In this regard the computer and the OS are invisible.
To put it another way, I am not using a computer, I am making music.

Very sensible. Thank you.

[Homebelly]

I've never had a single piece of spyware, malware, adware, or a single virus on a Mac that doesn't have virus protection. I just don't run strange executables.

Thanks for the info.

What do you mean by this comment? Sorry, I'm really uninformed about macs.

There are one or two stories about how people have cracked OS X from the out side and given the OS a virus. The stories are a bit miss leading as it makes it seem as though some one has figured out a away be able to remote control or spy on the OS with out permission. To be able to do this on OS X you need to be able to log in at some level, to be able to do that you need a pass word, the best way to get that is to get a log of how the keyboard is being used. To get that log you need to install a small application, to install an application you need a pass word.
An executable is a package that will install an application.

[d3drocks]

Macs are great, unfortunately the majority of people who use them are frigging cretins. Its nice to be writing music and browsing freesound at the same time without slowdown or the threat of virus' . I think i'll be getting a mac mini as my main studio computer next time i upgrade it in a few years.

macs are not great. Agreed that the useres (for the most part) are arrogant pricks.
the thing that gets me going, is that Apple charges TOP DOLLAR for Mac OSX, yet it is built off of completely free software. it is heavly built on FreeBSD and Apache.
heres a list of everything mac users paid top dollar for, which is free in better OS's like Ubuntu
http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/10.5.6/

hell, they even snagged X server, which allows for a graphical Interface.
even worse, they didnt even donate a penny to the projects they ripped off.

dont know about you guys, but I'll not be part of that community.
Linux and Windows are more my style.

[gjm]

My wife is the one pushing for the mac.

Ok, here is a situation that I would appreciate comment on.

My kids have a communal pc used essentially for games of various types, both internet based and HD based. They also surf the web, use chat sites like bebo and facebook, do their home work, play music, update and interact with their phones and mp3 players etc. This pc gets hit hard from adware etc, and things are forever being blocked by the AV program.

If I laid a macbook down in front of them, and they didn't change any of their habits, could I walk away from that machine and never touch it again (apart from OS updates)?