Ableton GUI : (

six_o_clock_crow · Post by **six_o_clock_crow** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:55 pm

A 'Live GUI' thread appears on pretty much every other software forum, y'know. Why? Because users of other software are always crying out for a Live-esque GUI, because they appreciate how 'clean' and conducive to a good workflow it is. It's no coincidence that users create Live-style skins for their other software.

However, I can appreciate that this view isn't shared by everyone, and people should be free to request this as a feature. Having the option to alter the GUI would be fine with me... but I'd argue that Ableton should only look at developing this once all the other bug fixes and feature requests have been implemented. Development time is precious, I'd say.

On a related issue, I personally HATE software that tries to look like hardware. Software doesn't have to conform to the limitations of what can be achieved physically. Software GUI's that imitate hardware just look so tacky and childish.

salatspinatra · Post by **salatspinatra** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:28 pm

Einstein is credited as saying, "Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler"
Operator users chime in: do you think the uniformity and layout of Operator to the Live aesthetic really represents the complexity of it well? That is, do you think the layout of Operator could be too simple; does it accurately model everything that Operator does? Or do you like that it looks like a part of ableton, and you feel that it's intuitive to what you're doing with it?

Also, a couple of other gripes I hear, which I think are rather misinformed, are when people wish they could see the arrangement and session in separate windows. The Back To Arrangement button is still a mystery to many people, and the relationship of the two signals being mutually exclusive is hard for people to grasp. So the arrangement/session toggle is really a design accomplishment, not an oversight.

abort · Post by **abort** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:42 pm

salatspinatra wrote:
Einstein is credited as saying, "Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler"

As an echo from my first posting (as I rightfully regret now) ..I really do enjoy the simplistic layout(.)

..but as an "artist" my initial "feelings" when I open up ableton live as a new session and look at the colors, flat designed layout I really don't feel DRAWN IN. Something about the physical and visual connection stimulating mental creativity!? Its not until after I pluck the first cord or bang that first kick do I feel sucked in to the plot, the "feeling". ..which really isn't much different with any other instrument!? Except I can't close my eyes and navigate the software.

Ableton: Don't get down because I don't like your gui, your the only software I've stuck with for four years! I never asked a software group to make me a rock star or a wanna be nothing. I still vary much enjoy doing what I do with you Ableton ..damn getting a hard o n ! excuse me for a second!

salatspinatra wrote:
So the arrangement/session toggle is really a design accomplishment, not an oversight.

and your right sala ..what ever your name is. I thought this was great feature as well. If more people would read the manual they'd understand the difference these two accomplish! Its like two programs in one.

But the more and more I think about it. It does not make sense to me why these two are ALL IN ONE running live instance!? Adobe, Corel, etc, etc all have separate entities that can be run together or individually.

Make session and arrangement rewire-able_ton!?

and why not have the mixer on a separate 'click' as well? Separate from session ..3 screens. Or or provide us with a mixer view in arrangement. Right where the spectrum would show up on!

like this:

Hidden Driveways · Post by **Hidden Driveways** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:46 pm

I have no beef with the Ableton GUI.

I do find that I work in Clip View a lot more than other parts of the program, and it's religated to the bottom of the screen, so I have to hit buttons and move spacers a lot in order to be able to do stuff. It seems like the center and most easily viewable portion stays pretty empty and unused until or if the set gets large enough.

But as far as drop shadows and 3D fader caps go, I love that Ableton came up with their more practical and truly realisitc computer based interface.

andydes · Post by **andydes** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:58 pm

salatspinatra wrote: Also, a couple of other gripes I hear, which I think are rather misinformed, are when people wish they could see the arrangement and session in separate windows. The Back To Arrangement button is still a mystery to many people, and the relationship of the two signals being mutually exclusive is hard for people to grasp. So the arrangement/session toggle is really a design accomplishment, not an oversight.

I disagree. Each track may only be able to play session or arrangement, but you can have a track playing in arrangement and jam other parts in session view. This is why you can see the arrangement progress at the top of session view.

Personnally, I'd like to see more integration between the views: BTA buttons per track or on clip slots, etc. but that's another issue.

As for running them in separate programs? Hell no, they are 99% the same. Just two ways of displaying and playing the clips.

+1 for more flexibility on the GUI. I like the look though.

djsynchro · Post by **djsynchro** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:21 pm

IMVHO You need to get rid of that chocolate skin and get one of the "boring" grey based ones then one day the minmalist beauty will reveal itself.

I admit the very very first time someone showed me Ableton Live it loaded up and I thought it was shareware or something, it didn't have the "expensive" glossy GUI of the main contenders. And I never looked at again until another person told me how capable Live is with loops. Once I'd demoed it, within 2 hours i was sold, the concept, the interface, the execution.

Another thing that is not mentioned alot: The way there are no overlapping windows or floating palettes is absolutely amazing, especially in the context of limited screen real estate on a laptop. On a multi screen DAW it could be cool to tear off bits, maybe. Lets see what Live 8 wil bring us. The interface has been tweaked lots of times already and it has always been an improvement. What about the browser showing automation mappings? Brilliant!

Fuck I love Live!!!!!!

crumhorn · Post by **crumhorn** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:28 pm

A useful and easily implemented improvement to session view would be to have one of those little triangle buttons to toggle the entire mixer section (including I/O, Sends, Faders, Track Delay and X-Fade) just leaving the clip grid visible.

Also I wish they would make the GUI control buttons MIDI mappable.

djsynchro · Post by **djsynchro** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:24 pm

I wish they would give us a full set of editing keyboard commands. I am an ex-Logic user and in logic there is a loooooooong list of comands like, moving a midi event by 1 tick, or 1 grid or 1 measure, inverting selections, selecting everything that is later in time than the selected event and so on.

You choose, dpending on how you like to work, the stuff that you use all the time and assign it to keyboard shortcuts: brilliant.

Let's see what Live 8 has in store.
I think Gerhard said in an interview that there weren't going to be major additions, but refinements becuase they wanted to avoid the bloatware thing.

I would be for that, enough features, tweak the usability.
Having said that, it's prrrreeettty fucking near perfect as it is.
I'm Livin' it™

wildcon · Post by **wildcon** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:17 pm

Hi,

Now just before i start let me just make clear that I love Live. It has totally transformed the way I make and record music

I'm absolutely up for keeping things simple and to a large degree Live does that. I think the general layout and principles in Live are fine, although I do find it incredibly frustrating that some obvious right click functions (scissors!) and useful keyboard shortcuts are not implemented.

However, I do thing the GUI could do with a spruce up. The colour schemes for the skins are pathetic. I'm happy for you fan boys to shoot me down on this but they absolutely suck!

My view is somewhat different in that (maybe this comes from owning several 'lovely' guitars) there is definitely a correlation between what something looks like and the way you use it and are inspired by it.

I really feel there should be some form of seperate 'design' (maybe just colours) to the plug ins and synths in Live.

I find Operator totally 'uninspiring' even though it has some great sounds.

How inspiring is it when for instance, Zebra or the new UhBik plugs pop up on the screen - you just reallly want to get stuck in there and start twiddling - Beautiful

. And - this is the important bit - Functional at the same time

djsynchro · Post by **djsynchro** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:08 pm

I think the people that think that Live looks boring are probably into Trance. Most Trance album covers are crap, and they do have lots of gradient, shine glasss gloss 3D rendering etcetera usually. So nineties!

djsynchro · Post by **djsynchro** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:18 pm

Zebra? That fugly VSt with the zebra stripes? You think that's beautiful?

supamonsta · Post by **supamonsta** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:51 pm

I HATE THE ORANGE COLOR ON THE MUTE BUTTONS.

F*** ORANGE.

craftycurate · Post by **craftycurate** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:08 pm

The GUI is excellent - ne touchez pas!

evon · Post by **evon** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:48 pm

condra wrote:Abort, for about two years here I've been part of the (misunderstood) minority of people who lobby for an improved GUI, or at least the option to turn on some sort of texturing or shading.

It's completely futile as unfortunatly you will always get shouted down by a reactionary majority who think you want to make Live look like Reason.

They usually miss the point that some subtle shading, texturing and gradiation is actually very useful in interface design, and can easily look quite tasteful.

I cant see Ableton implimenting it, in Live 8, but we will know very soon. They could at least assign different colours to the "Track Display" area and "Track Title Bar area in Arrangement view. This and some gentle gradient use on waveforms would make a big difference for starters IMO.

I agree, especially the arrangement view. However, I still think that the GUI as it is is good and was one of the main attractions for me initially. Still, I haven't seen much if any improvement in this respect since about v5.

evon · Post by **evon** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:03 pm

djsynchro wrote:It's beautiful and minimal,
To change it would be criminal!

Aww...continue..I think you've got something there. Really, you should finish.. I would find a hit melody and rythm to accompany the verses. Surely would be a fitting way to pay tribute to the much acclaimed GUI of all GUI's