will u buy Live 8?

[SubFunk]

One reason I don't use drum racks at all is that the sub channels don't show up in the Mackie Control, or the Remote SL. So not only are you unable to route a single channel of a drum rack out of the rack, but you can't use any smart control surfaces with them either.
Sad part is the folder part of drum racks is really useful to me. There's little visual feedback in Session view during mixdown compared to other DAWs and it's a PITA to scroll through tracks in the super top modern single window interface.
Basically, for post production Live blows compared to the other DAWs.

Hm, that's it.

But i still don't get the obsession that live needs to do everything.
Live is the greatest fun and ease to create a track! Bar none.
Then, at least for me, it is no problem to take it elsewhere.
Other progs are good for mixdowns, post prod., etc...
Even logic is not the best for everything, i still like peak (in my case) for the last touch or plain audio editing.
I just see because of the way live works, that it does add up more cpu strain and instability making it doing everything. Live is so unique in it's structure and FUN to use that i am very happy with it. And because of that i don't see it needs to compare with others, it's outstanding. Alone the clip view, the ability to "jam" an arrangement and the ease of key and midi mapping lifts it above ALL others, if i need more, i have plenty to choose from.... I am against hyperstores, i prefer to go to lot's of different lttle shops with soul and quality in things they are specialised in. F*** hyperstores.

My 2 cents

[8O]

But i still don't get the obsession that live needs to do everything.

I think it's mainly because many people (myself included) don't want to pay another EUR400 or so for another DAW just for a better midi editor, and also don't want to waste time learning to use another DAW (time better spent making music!). That's my guess anyway...

[Acidfever]

My wishlist:

More flexible audio editting in arrangement (look at cubase 4(also for other arrange functionality!). Cubase is a bugfest, but functionality wise it might be one of the best packages out there (besides it being ugly and all).

Since version 1.0: Midi editor that can compete with any other DAW.

LFO/Modulation machine that can modulate any destination (maybe a modular structure with a switchable classic/detail view).

More than 1 midi out per channel (without any virtual midi suffering).

And probably some other stuff i can't think of right now.

Don't care about the instrumnts much (or at all actually, most stuff in the pack is outperformed by 3rd party plugins).

Also, ableton might be better off to drop te price. Look at what Logic 8 retals for these days. COmparing the plugin package you get with that makes it kind of a weird comparison pricewise (though ableton stills rocks in fun of use).

[SubFunk]

But i still don't get the obsession that live needs to do everything.

I think it's mainly because many people (myself included) don't want to pay another EUR400 or so for another DAW just for a better midi editor, and also don't want to waste time learning to use another DAW (time better spent making music!). That's my guess anyway...

fair enough.

all i try to say is that Live should stay unique like Logic "copied" partly the GUI idea, that is the way i see Live should be... A LEADER of ideas and structural invention.
and not to copy parts of sonar, logic, cubase or whatsoever is around.

it's not a rant, just a wish... that they surprise me with that WOW x 100.000 effect i had when i worked with it the first time, and that everybody had i introduced it to.

i even sold it to theaters and production companies for using it as a jingle jukebox and player, instead of that rubbish overpriced theatro... and eveyone was WOW! that is where Live shines as well !!!!! there are hundreds of uses, no other DAW can do as good as Live.

[Tone Deft]

But i still don't get the obsession that live needs to do everything.

I think it's mainly because many people (myself included) don't want to pay another EUR400 or so for another DAW just for a better midi editor, and also don't want to waste time learning to use another DAW (time better spent making music!). That's my guess anyway...

I'm in that boat, but I'm also just a hobbyist. for me I'd rather know Live REALLY well than know Live and Cubase on a basic level and yeah, there's the extra money for another DAW, I don't like to pay $$ for duplicate gear.


I forgot to mention the new slicer in L7, that was a pretty cool addition.


requisite rampant speculation (which will be dashed in a few days)... Live's been getting DAW awards for a few years but there are some embarrassing holes in the software. they stepped up to Sonar's 64 bit summing and sidechain effects, in this release I hope they step up with some of the basic omissions like more midi functions, cross fader curves, groove templates, etc. TBH I really wouldn't know what I'm missing, I only use Live, for better or worse.

my $0.005...

[SubFunk]

tone deft wrote:

Live's been getting DAW awards for a few years but there are some embarrassing holes in the software.

holes , live is the first audio software with seriously applied THINKING DIFFERENT approach, so utter unique and none of that 20 times already in the freakin' same way availability...

holes , freak me out. it gives you a way of working like nothing else...
no one ever had the slightest creativity to do it any better nor DIFFERENT.

they got awards for being so creative / DIFFERENT not for being one in a million!!!

common get real, or am i on a different planet, here?. you making a joke right?

edit:

the only other program the last few years around having a compared to live little different approach is reason.

the rest is a copy of a copy of a copy with minor differences, compared.
and i say that being an utter Logic lover, for many reasons, but it does not come even close to Live for what Live can and NO other DAW.

they are different and again Live is so highly recognised for being exactly that: different.

[Tone Deft]

I completely agree on Live being a unique and amazingly fun way to capture ideas.

as for lacking features most DAWs have, other people can speak to this much better than I can, a few I can list are...

- automation curves
- groove templates
- midi editing (not just piano roll)
- instrument definition files for external gear
- track folders

really basic stuff. yes, there are things Live can do that other DAWs can't approach, mostly session view. if Logic, Sonar or Cubase did a session view, how unique would Live be then? (devil's advocate)



edit - Reason!!?? fuck Reason!! it doesn't even record audio, LAME!! swinging cables? laughable. it's all the limitations of hardware (in the GUI) bundled with all the limitations of software. it was cute when it first came out, we were used to hardware, it looked like hardware, easy enough to pick up. anymore it's a joke, IMNSHO, a LOT of people still LOVE that software.

[SubFunk]

if Logic, Sonar or Cubase did a session view, how unique would Live be then? (devil's advocate)

that is my point, you hit the nail on the head!

Live needs to stay innovative, not becoming another standard DAW.

and for reason, i don't like it neither, but that is not the point.
point is that you got a whole 'studio' in a box.
and by the way: it is a great tool for learning how a studio works / is wired.
you don't get a better idea of how things actually 'play' together... signal routing then with reason.
still i don't like it for production... that is not the point of discussion however.

[Tone Deft]

and for reason, i don't like it neither, but that is not the point.
point is that you got a whole 'studio' in a box.
and by the way: it is a great tool for learning how a studio works / is wired.
you don't get a better idea of how things actually 'play' together... signal routing then with reason.
still i don't like it for production... that is not the point of discussion however.

yeah, but tell that to a user like myself who likes to record guitar and bass, I can't do that with Reason. Reason is only part of a studio, the 100% in the box studio for purely electronic music. it is or was innovative and has retained a great following for a number of years. anymore I think the whole concept is outmoded.

[djsynchro]

One reason I don't use drum racks at all is that the sub channels don't show up in the Mackie Control

Well that's one little tweak that I hope they'll do. in fact, I hope that 8 will be a not-so-shockingly new version, just getting everything to work consistently and perfect. Cossfades for audio would be cool because you have to have them for vocal comping.

[Poster]

holes , live is the first audio software with seriously applied THINKING DIFFERENT approach, so utter unique and none of that 20 times already in the freakin' same way availability...

other than the examples Tone mentioned I think its rather the holes in Live's own uniqueness than holes compared to other DAWs and what we think of 'standard DAW features'..

Session is what makes Live unique to me, but..
no automation recording, not being able to drag rich content from Arrange to Session (or even create rich content in Session), are holes imho..

[SubFunk]

and for reason, i don't like it neither, but that is not the point.
point is that you got a whole 'studio' in a box.
and by the way: it is a great tool for learning how a studio works / is wired.
you don't get a better idea of how things actually 'play' together... signal routing then with reason.
still i don't like it for production... that is not the point of discussion however.

yeah, but tell that to a user like myself who likes to record guitar and bass, I can't do that with Reason. Reason is only part of a studio, the 100% in the box studio for purely electronic music. it is or was innovative and has retained a great following for a number of years. anymore I think the whole concept is outmoded.

hey, fair enough... point of respect for me is: exactly that it is / was intended as a electronic midi studio in a box (simple and cheap). and hey, they invented rewire, which i love. (and i guess they invented it to make use of the strength of what other DAWs already deliver... not trying to re-invent the wheel.)

that you are not 'their' customer, fair enough neither am i.
and same with live, i don't think they need to catch all or better say cater for all.

[SubFunk]

holes , live is the first audio software with seriously applied THINKING DIFFERENT approach, so utter unique and none of that 20 times already in the freakin' same way availability...

other than the examples Tone mentioned I think its rather the holes in Live's own uniqueness than holes compared to other DAWs and what we think of 'standard DAW features'..

Session is what makes Live unique to me, but..
no automation recording, not being able to drag rich content from Arrange to Session (or even create rich content in Session), are holes imho..

that is the first time someone said it in a way that makes sense to me... maybe i am stupid or i never got it, because i manage happily to create tracks i am happy with only with the use of live as well. don't know really.

still hope they stay unique.

[adventurepants_]

theyve got me, i missed 7 and have been itching to upgrade for months now.


all i want for 8 is

- midi sync that is CONSISTENT, or at least provide tools to hit this moving target so you dont have to constantly rejig your settings to get hardware in time.

- track folders

- record midi when its played, not when its heard!
but ive given up on this, they dont recognise it as a problem. its just baffling. not everyone wants to record quantised, y'know?

[Brian W. Green]

more than likely yes just all depends really cause the version i have right now is all i need but there are times when i want a little more but im getting minimal with my sets so idk.