VST or AU?

Simon Lewin · Post by **Simon Lewin** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 9:15 am

Apologies for what might be a daft question...

If, say, a soft synth is available in BOTH Audio Unit and VST formats, is one better than the other when using with Live 4 on a Mac?

Thanks!

Simon

majestic · Post by **majestic** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:05 am

If you have a choice, use AU. It's up to twice as efficient with CPU utilisation (something to do with the way AU processes stereo from what I remember). An example is Stylus RMX, which is a CPU guzzler: without even loading any samples, the AU takes 15% of the CPU in Live on my G4 PB...but the VST is even worse, it takes 22%.

However, most of the time it doesn't seem to make much difference. But since you're on a Mac, you may as well go AU anyway since Apple created it and it's most likely the best choice on an Apple machine.

Frank Hoffmann · Post by **Frank Hoffmann** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:37 am

Ok guys, lets get rid of all the AU vs. VST myths.

Neither Audio Units not VST have better performance. The formats are pretty the same. There might be a slight disadvantage in performance for Audio Units in Live, but nothing dramatic. If you experience differences between AU and VST then it is caused by misprogramming of the plug-in.

Here are the other main differences from a users view:

Audio Units are not scanned in Live. If you don't use VST at all, the startup time of Live increases.

Audio Units have better support for the GUI over VST on Mac. But there is nothing dramatic from the users point of view.

VST is cross platform compatible. If you ever want to use your song on a PC use VST. (But some VST plug-ins fail to support that correctly.)

Plug-in developers have more experience with the VST platform and therefore produce normaly more stable VST plug-ins. (This most likely changes over time.)

Audio Units are often incompatible to certain hosts because the standard and the support of Audio Units in hosts is changing. (There should be no problem in Live about that at the moment.)

Frank

muthafunka · Post by **muthafunka** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:14 pm

Frank Hoffmann wrote:Ok guys, lets get rid of all the AU vs. VST myths.

Audio Units have better support for the GUI over VST on Mac. But there is nothing dramatic from the users point of view.
Frank

There ARE some biggish differences, I posted on this before but no-one bit...here goes again:

1. VST-you are able to load banks from the default Live plugin window. AU, you aren't. This SUCKS (ie you're stuck with one bank) for AUs that don't have a bank load button on their interface ie Imposcar (patch yes, bank no)
2. AU-you are able to name and save dropdown presets of your own (LOVE this) in the default plugin window using the disc icon. How do you do this in the VST? Sometimes the dropdown contains the patch names, sometimes it doesn't. Either way, I don't see how to save to this list.

Oddly enough, here in Japan the most up-and-coming mobile fone provider is called....AU!!!!!! Pronounced as you'd guess, 'Ay-yoo'...and they have THE nicest designed fones too!

majestic · Post by **majestic** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:42 pm

Frank Hoffmann wrote:If you don't use VST at all, the startup time of Live increases.

Thanks Frank, nice to hear a definitive answer from someone at Ableton since all I really care about is what format I should use with Live. My comment was based on what SmartElectronix have said at http://destroyfx.smartelectronix.com/audiounits.html

So just to clarify:

(a) in general, when used in Live, neither format will provide a performance benefit;
(b) if both formats are available, there may be a slight benefit in choosing VST; and
(c) Using at least one VST plug will decrease the startup time of Live.

Is that right? Point (c) really doesn't make sense to me, but I absolutely accept it's true since you're an Ableton guy - just not sure, maybe I'm misinterpreting you...?

Frank Hoffmann · Post by **Frank Hoffmann** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:42 pm

majestic wrote:
Frank Hoffmann wrote:If you don't use VST at all, the startup time of Live increases.
Thanks Frank, nice to hear a definitive answer from someone at Ableton since all I really care about is what format I should use with Live. My comment was based on what SmartElectronix have said at http://destroyfx.smartelectronix.com/audiounits.html

So just to clarify:

(a) in general, when used in Live, neither format will provide a performance benefit;

True.

majestic wrote: (b) if both formats are available, there may be a slight benefit in choosing VST; and

Depends what is more important for you and depends pretty much on the plug-in. I can only give the advise to check which works better for you. In most cases you wouldn't find a difference. When you want to work cross platform go for VST.

majestic wrote: (c) Using at least one VST plug will decrease the startup time of Live.

Is that right? Point (c) really doesn't make sense to me, but I absolutely accept it's true since you're an Ableton guy - just not sure, maybe I'm misinterpreting you...?

When you install VST plug-ins in your system folders or Live's custom VST folder and activate VST support in Live, then yes. Live has to verify all files and directories in your VST folders on startup. This is what all hosts are doing. The more files and folders you installed there, the longer it takes to start Live. Hope I could shet some light on that.

Frank

Frank Hoffmann · Post by **Frank Hoffmann** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:45 pm

muthafunka wrote:
Frank Hoffmann wrote:Ok guys, lets get rid of all the AU vs. VST myths.

Audio Units have better support for the GUI over VST on Mac. But there is nothing dramatic from the users point of view.
Frank
There ARE some biggish differences, I posted on this before but no-one bit...here goes again:

1. VST-you are able to load banks from the default Live plugin window. AU, you aren't. This SUCKS (ie you're stuck with one bank) for AUs that don't have a bank load button on their interface ie Imposcar (patch yes, bank no)
2. AU-you are able to name and save dropdown presets of your own (LOVE this) in the default plugin window using the disc icon. How do you do this in the VST? Sometimes the dropdown contains the patch names, sometimes it doesn't. Either way, I don't see how to save to this list.

Oddly enough, here in Japan the most up-and-coming mobile fone provider is called....AU!!!!!! Pronounced as you'd guess, 'Ay-yoo'...and they have THE nicest designed fones too!

Oh yes, you are right. There is a difference of how presets are handled. I oversaw that. Decide by yourself. In my opinion both systems have their limitations. The AU preset system could be better mapped to the Ableton preset system.

Frank

muthafunka · Post by **muthafunka** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:19 am

Thanks Frank, nice to hear that I'm not going crazy wondering about the differences.